radial from ring main

[Soulsurfer]

5 years on and I've just had this exact same argument with a company today, rough as ffff ! even tried arguing the point !

 

[Soulsurfer]

So went to help out a new company as a subby today possibly for more too as electrician they had onboard was keen on drink ;-) lots of it stashed on site etc..
They have a 1st yr apprentice left there trying to basically learn to fit new kitchen wiring and bathrooms with no knowledge at all basically and while elderly people are still living in the flats high rise.

I start looking to fit new socket faces and general 2nd fix and test today and find back boxes all steaming etc.. and the tiler has tiled at 55 degree angles to the boxes that were already on the lash ! then I get to asking him- apprentice why they have run spurs off spurs off spurs from original ring all in 4mm twin no less at a guess to carry the current as opposed to 2.5 and extending the ring final, and they have in a few flats looped 4mm twins in and out and picked up DP switches to isolate sockets in alcoves etc.. for washing machines and the like then added as I say spur after spur essentially making one point of the entire flat ring circuit into a radial.

Then at one end they have fed 4mm into a single box to feed a switch for an extract fan up above and come straight off in 1.0mm twin ! I said why not into a SFCU to enable fusing it down at least but he said two sparks said it was all good ?? well he said one said he wouldn't do it like that but it was ok !

Next flat even better same issue mainly spur off ring and then as a radial to 6 plus sockets or DP switches and on to sockets after, then I ask where is feed from ring in ? Young lad says oh it's there other side of kitchen ! So I look and no they have a cupboard with a big slack heap of 4mm bundled in there, then he says oh yeah there's a feed the other side to opposite work top and units too, no linking cables up and over etc.. just the single 4mm one side spurred off the ring and other side of kitchen everything is linked together and waiting to be fed separately from the 4mm bundled in a hall cupboard ! So by now I'm thinking someone has a big hat and horse outside, and so in for a penny I ask him where the previous spark had said he was taking the 4mm ? and he says just in the back of that single socket in the hallway to feed the kitchen as a spur !!

Where do these people come from and how can they sleep at night !
Am I just being picky or is it utter shi*e ??

 

[Hellmooth]

My god that isn't an easy read lol

 

[Hellmooth]

Did you stop for breath there at all?

 

[Pete999]

hi there, would like your views on this.. Jb off a ring main and run two or three socket,s on a 4mm radial. I myself don,t mind it. no current capacity issues.and no zs problem,s if rcd protected.Any thoughts.

I would suggest you read, inwardly digest Appendix 15 of the BS 7671, which give you all the details of Ring final circuits and Radial final circuits, what you are suggesting smacks of " you don't know what you are doing" sorry for being blunt but this is basic stuff for even a DI

 

[Soulsurfer]

Did you stop for breath there at all?

Ha ha I did but was pretty wound up when I got in from getting interrogated by the muppets that are doing this rubbish work ! Bit hard to explain while off the top of my head but it is garbage and as Pete has posted below to the OP on this older thread, surely by reading Appendice 15 even a layman or apprentice would understand basic ring finals and radials ! lol

 

[valleybilly]

1. 
   Reasons you shouldn't:
   1. It is prohibited by 434.2.1 - "The part of the conductor between the point of reduction of cross-sectional area or other change and the position of the protective device shall not exceed 3m in length..."
2. 4mm clipped direct 36 amps . he is increasing not reducing the csa. Still a stupid idea thou lol.

 

[Soulsurfer]

1. 
   Reasons you shouldn't:
   1. It is prohibited by 434.2.1 - "The part of the conductor between the point of reduction of cross-sectional area or other change and the position of the protective device shall not exceed 3m in length..."
2. 4mm clipped direct 36 amps . he is increasing not reducing the csa. Still a stupid idea thou lol.

Agreed Billy, although just had main contractor on phone texting asking me wtf is going on and why I'm not happy with it ? I said basically it's rough and bad practice and in extreme could overload one or more legs of essentially now a mixed circuit between ring and radial, also a pain for next electrician who comes into place and scratches his head plus ring system now flawed by the endless spur off spur carry on. He's telling me that a BS number isn't going to cut it with him etc.. I said I'll be the one doing the cutting in cutting ties with his gang ! lol

 

[sparkdog]

I thought it was a yellow book, or is that the AA?

 

[Chr!s]

hi there, would like your views on this.. Jb off a ring main and run two or three socket,s on a 4mm radial. I myself don,t mind it. no current capacity issues.and no zs problem,s if rcd protected.Any thoughts.

Hi, there is no technical issue with this other than load distribution.