RCBO to fit an old Wylex TPN D.B

[spud1]

Hi All!

Does anyone know of a brand of RCBO which will fit in place of an old BS3871 Type 2 HB Wylex MCB in a Wylex TPN metal clad Distribution board?

Thanks in advance

 

[i=p/u]

you could try 30mA on the tails... could

 

[Knobhead]

you could try 30mA on the tails... could

Good suggestion so long as everything checks out.

I just wish people would realise there’s a reason it’s the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition. There were 16 before it. Some lasting many years without the need for amendment!

 

[ackbarthestar]

Yes i intend to 'hoard' the old MCBs! Ha ha. My hope was that I wouldnt have to change the whole DB as alot of SWAs/Metal conduit glanded into it, in a tight cupboard! So are you saying EEBADs still exists as an 'umbrella' term in the 17th edition and in turn ADS falls under it?

It certainly does still apply. If the installation complied and was safe when it was first installed and the EICR shows that safety has not been impaired then the installation is still usable. The problem arises where other authorizing / Licensing bodies are likely to demand the latest methods of protection for insurance purposes. This may well apply to Nursing homes.

 

[Knobhead]

With people not knowing what they are testing and the regulations they were installed to there’s no wonder this trade has a bad reputation with the public.
I thought scare tactics were the realm of British Gas.

 

[spud1]

I understand what your both saying and I am very familiar with GN3 but I think you are both mireading the situation and straying from my original question. My client has paid to have an EICR carried out and is asking that ALL remedial action be carried out so their nursing home is as safe and compliant with current regulations as possible for both peice of mind and insurance purposes. At no point have I told them they have to get this work done and I dont think Im going to turn around and say Im not going to incorporate RCD protection to this particular dist board because its a bit tricky and anyway it complies with regs in the early 80s when it was installed so thats ok?

 

[spud1]

Hang on Tony, There have been no scare tactics here!? I was trained under 16th edition Regs 15 years ago. This remedial action has been ordered by one of the largest national care companies off the back of a recent EICR for insurance purposes. I joined this forum to help and be helped fellow electricians not to be attacked by know it alls with too much time on their hands who jump on the offensive without taking into full account the situation at hand. So unless you ve got something helpful to add, dont add.

 

[Knobhead]

With the absence of RCD protection to most of the circuits in question the installation does not comply with current BS7671 2008 (17th edition) as amended. To say the installation does not require the remedial action because it complies with regs in force at the time of installation is a bit strange? If we applied that logic to all EICRs there would be no such thing as remedial action?

I made the statement with this in mind as I think others did.

 

[spud1]

Fair enough. I can see how my poor wording and lack of thought in that comment could have be misconstrued and I apologize, but knowing now what you do about the situation do you not think your comment was a little catty and unfounded, aside from being completely off piste from the original reason I started this thread? Your obviously a time served member.. and i respect that, but I do think its a shame that less experienced electricians come on here for help and have to put up with put downs and snide comments like that. We're all learning Tony all the time, even you.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I don't propose to underwrite your findings...So its your call.
However, things to look for IMO, would be:

Did the Nursing Home electrics comply when it was first installed?

Has any work or deterioration taken place between the time it was first installed and the time you did the EICR?

What do the local licensing body and building control say about electrical installations in Nursing homes?

More on EICRs

Its derisive of BS7671 to state that installations are non-retrospective, but at the same time are measured against the current standards. So any installation that is not strictly compliant with the latest edition of the regs will be non-compliant.

Its a question of whether or not its safe.

But that won't help if your local licensing body states it must comply with the current regs.

 

[spud1]

Thanks akbar. Nice to see that someone wants to be helpful. I have since spoken with the head office and head of maintenance for my client and apparently their insurance company is stipulating evidence of a program of ongoing electrical updating and compliance works throughout all of their homes. So although I agree that the regs are most certainly retrospective it does not apply to this particular instance. So..... now we ve cleared that up, back to my original question; Does anybody know of an RCBO that will fit a Metal clad Wylex dist board in place of a Wylex BS3871 Type 2 HB MCB?

 

[ackbarthestar]

Thanks akbar. Nice to see that someone wants to be helpful. I have since spoken with the head office and head of maintenance for my client and apparently their insurance company is stipulating evidence of a program of ongoing electrical updating and compliance works throughout all of their homes. So although I agree that the regs are most certainly retrospective it does not apply to this particular instance. So..... now we ve cleared that up, back to my original question; Does anybody know of an RCBO that will fit a Metal clad Wylex dist board in place of a Wylex BS3871 Type 2 HB MCB?

regs are most certainly retrospective

I think you mean 'non-retrospective?


I think you have your answer in that a continual process of upgrading is required. I think you'll have to decide at what point each property needs upgrading.

As far as finding RCBOs for the open busbar system employed with Wylex and Crabree, I think you are out of luck since BS 3871 and that type of busbar system was made obsolete back in 1992 and RCBOs didn't come on line, so to speak, until the beginning of 2000, all dates are approximate.

You'll also find that the latest ed of the regs no longer include this BS specification in its appendix.

 

[spud1]

Sorry yes typo. Thanks for your help.