RCD on socket outlets

[Dazza1976]

Hi all,

i have heard so much difference of opinion on this subject, and im sure it has been discussed many a time on this forum, but can anyone clarify a couple of questions i have on the subject please.

Do all new sockets installed have to be RCD protected, or is it only mandatory if they are likely to be used for powering anything outside or in a special location ?

When carrying out an electrical condition report, if none of the sockets installed have any RCD protection, would you put that down as a C1 code, or would you take into account the fact it was installed before the use of RCDs and was wired according to the regulations at that time and just put it down as a reccomendation to bring it inline with the current regs.
I have heard a few people say that its an instant fail, but im sure you have to give consideration to whn it was installed ?

Many thanks in advance

 

[telectrix]

Hi all,

i have heard so much difference of opinion on this subject, and im sure it has been discussed many a time on this forum, but can anyone clarify a couple of questions i have on the subject please.

Do all new sockets installed have to be RCD protected, or is it only mandatory if they are likely to be used for powering anything outside or in a special location ? read bs7671 reg. 411.3.3

When carrying out an electrical condition report, if none of the sockets installed have any RCD protection, would you put that down as a C1 code, or would you take into account the fact it was installed before the use of RCDs and was wired according to the regulations at that time and just put it down as a reccomendation to bring it inline with the current regs. C2 if for use outside. otherwise a C3 if installed to previous regs. and compliant at the time.
I have heard a few people say that its an instant fail, but im sure you have to give considerationto whn it was installed ?

Many thanks in advance

my thoughts in red. for the 2nd answer,to the inspector as to whether or not in constites a real or poptential danger. though, it's always down

 

[Andy78]

With this lack of knowledge about something very basic and widely known, you maybe shouldn't be carrying out this EICR.

 

[Hobsoni]

With regard to a condition report:-

as a minimum items installed prior to 7671:2008 without an RCD should be classified as C3 (improvement recommended). For me personally, if I enter a property that does not have any previous testing records (however obvious the age of the installation) then I would (using judgement) elevate such matters to a C2.

Obviously the installation premises type should give you a good idea of the level of protection required. If for example it was a hotel, and you were referring to the hotel rooms which are to be used by general members of the public then I would classify not having RCD protection on sockets a fail (C1 or C2) irrespective of previous testing records being satisfactory.

 

[Dazza1976]

Hi thanks for your reply,

I wouldnt say i have lack of knowledge on the subject as I too would have coded it a C2 or C3, I just wanted to hear your opinions on here, as i recently had the debate with a guy who was Niceic registered and he was adament that if it didnt comply with the current regs you would put it down as a C1 if the sockets had no RCD protection.

I will be honest, im not as knowledgebale as some of you guys on here, but im no Electrical Trainee either and did a full 3years City and Guilds

I appreciate your feedback though

 

[snowhead]

From the Electrical Safety Council guide;

Code C1
‘Danger present’. Risk of injury.
Immediate remedial action required.

Code C2
‘Potentially dangerous’.
Urgent remedial action required

Code C3
‘Improvement recommended’.

Can't see where a perfectly innocent Socket with no live wires hanging out of it can be a Code 1

 

[D Skelton]

Hi thanks for your reply,

I wouldnt say i have lack of knowledge on the subject as I too would have coded it a C2 or C3, I just wanted to hear your opinions on here, as i recently had the debate with a guy who was Niceic registered and he was adament that if it didnt comply with the current regs you would put it down as a C1 if the sockets had no RCD protection.

I will be honest, im not as knowledgebale as some of you guys on here, but im no Electrical Trainee either and did a full 3years City and Guilds

I appreciate your feedback though

Even still, your knowledge at this point it time is far too basic to be conducting periodic inspection and testing. Such a fundamental gap in your knowledge when it comes to design principles is evidence enough, and if someone doesn't know how to design, then they shouldn't be inspecting and testing. Going by some of your past posts you've only had your regs book for less than a year!

Do you hold a 2391 or 2394/2395 qualification? I'd steer well clear of EICRs fella, you could end up in a whole world of grief!

 

[Hobsoni]

From the Electrical Safety Council guide;

Code C1
‘Danger present’. Risk of injury.
Immediate remedial action required.

Code C2
‘Potentially dangerous’.
Urgent remedial action required

Code C3
‘Improvement recommended’.

Can't see where a perfectly innocent Socket with no live wires hanging out of it can be a Code 1

Agree, but the inspector should be competent enough to determine 'when' a certain 'type of accessory' May be fit for purpose in one environment type and not fit for purpose in a different environment type.


On a lighter note, there is an argument to say that everything should be classified as a C2............Anything is potentially dangerous in the wrong hands!

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I think the new amendment will make thinks clearer on the installation of sockets.

 

[dingledong]

It's only by learning that you can move forward

.I have seen many reports that that have failed a properly which I would have passed with less remedials

 

[Hobsoni]

.I have seen many reports that that have failed a properly which I would have passed with less remedials[/QUOTE]


Obviously earns too much money

 

[nickblake]

If it were a student house then I would say a C2 how ever its not potentially dangerous its additional protection , so a risk assessment should be carried out, if the installation is rented / student let then its a higher risk as most students need a C2 for them selves , so to get a land lord to carry out works to protect himself you need to C2 it so it becomes an unsatisfactory inspection , really its all about risk assesment

 

[telectrix]

Hi thanks for your reply,

I wouldnt say i have lack of knowledge on the subject as I too would have coded it a C2 or C3, I just wanted to hear your opinions on here, as i recently had the debate with a guy who was Niceic registered and he was adament that if it didnt comply with the current regs you would put it down as a C1 if the sockets had no RCD protection.

I will be honest, im not as knowledgebale as some of you guys on here, but im no Electrical Trainee either and did a full 3years City and Guilds

I appreciate your feedback though

then he's either a numpty or fishing for extra work. that's like failing a car's MOT for dirty bodywork

 

[Silly Sausage]

a guy who was Niceic registered and he was adament that if it didnt comply with the current regs you would put it down as a C1 if the sockets had no RCD protection.

Being NICEIC registered and being competent/know what one is talking about are not necessarily mutually inclusive! :smilielol5:

 

[nickblake]

then he's either a numpty or fishing for extra work. that's like failing a car's MOT for dirty bodywork

And to right to !!!