RCD on socket outlets

[Dazza1976]

Hi all,

i have heard so much difference of opinion on this subject, and im sure it has been discussed many a time on this forum, but can anyone clarify a couple of questions i have on the subject please.

Do all new sockets installed have to be RCD protected, or is it only mandatory if they are likely to be used for powering anything outside or in a special location ?

When carrying out an electrical condition report, if none of the sockets installed have any RCD protection, would you put that down as a C1 code, or would you take into account the fact it was installed before the use of RCDs and was wired according to the regulations at that time and just put it down as a reccomendation to bring it inline with the current regs.
I have heard a few people say that its an instant fail, but im sure you have to give consideration to whn it was installed ?

Many thanks in advance

 

[dingledong]

Or making money ! ! #

 

[dingledong]

:angel_smile:Hobsoni unfortunately I am honest and would never rip anyone of at all

 

[telectrix]

well, poor bugger's got to reclaim his exorbitant scam fees somehow.

 

[Dazza1976]

Even still, your knowledge at this point it time is far too basic to be conducting periodic inspection and testing. Such a fundamental gap in your knowledge when it comes to design principles is evidence enough, and if someone doesn't know how to design, then they shouldn't be inspecting and testing. Going by some of your past posts you've only had your regs book for less than a year!

Do you hold a 2391 or 2394/2395 qualification? I'd steer well clear of EICRs fella, you could end up in a whole world of grief!

Well thanks for your replies everyone.

Constructive criticism I havent got a problem with, but blatantly jumping in and putting people down with wrong assumptions I do.

Andy 78 and D Skelton, I appreciate you are both trusted members on this site and clearly have a wealth of experience and knowledge which i respect you for, but you jumped in and tried to belittle me without obviously even reading my post properly.

Where in the post did I say that I was carrying out an EICR myself or was about to do so ?? I havent and never said i did, as i wouldnt feel fully confident doing one on my own at this stage in time. Although i did a 3 years City and guilds course and have a fairly decent level of experience, i will be the first to admit that I still have a lot to learn, and wouldnt put my name to anything like that until im fully experienced and feel confident to do so.

I was asking the questions as I am still learning and trying to better myself and improve my knowledge every day, and as i mentioned i have heard quite a few differences of opinion on the subject and wanted to hear what some of you experienced fellas on here had to say.

If a more experienced guy who is registered with Niciec tells you something different to what you believed, you are going to ask questions about it arent you ?

At the end of the day I am only trying to better myself, and make sure that Im doing things the correct way, as I too would like to be fully competent and be doing my own EICRs one day.

D Skelton why did you think it was necessary to read my past posts and then comment I have only had my reg books for a year ?? I had the old Brown 16th edition books for a good 7 years before that, and was also borrowing my friends 17th edition ones before i bought my own. You are implying that i only started reading the regs a year ago ?!

I love this site, as it has been an extremely valuable tool for gaining extra knowledge, I just dont like the way some people on here are always putting down others accusing them of being incompetent e.t.c when all they are trying to do is get advice and better their understanding of a very complexed trade.

You guys with the wealth of experience and knowledge should maybe think back to the days when you knew far less and were greatful to get any help and advice from others, instead of shooting people down and trying to make them look stupid.

 

[davesparks]

For a start I strongly recommend reading the guidance for people carrying out EICRs which is included in the standard forms at the back of bs7671.
It makes the position on older installations quite clear.

Also, an installation does not pass or fail an EICR, it is only a report on the condition of the installation. The report includes an overall conclusion of either satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

 

[D Skelton]

Well thanks for your replies everyone.

Constructive criticism I havent got a problem with, but blatantly jumping in and putting people down with wrong assumptions I do.

Andy 78 and D Skelton, I appreciate you are both trusted members on this site and clearly have a wealth of experience and knowledge which i respect you for, but you jumped in and tried to belittle me without obviously even reading my post properly.

Where in the post did I say that I was carrying out an EICR myself or was about to do so ?? I havent and never said i did, as i wouldnt feel fully confident doing one on my own at this stage in time. Although i did a 3 years City and guilds course and have a fairly decent level of experience, i will be the first to admit that I still have a lot to learn, and wouldnt put my name to anything like that until im fully experienced and feel confident to do so.

I was asking the questions as I am still learning and trying to better myself and improve my knowledge every day, and as i mentioned i have heard quite a few differences of opinion on the subject and wanted to hear what some of you experienced fellas on here had to say.

If a more experienced guy who is registered with Niciec tells you something different to what you believed, you are going to ask questions about it arent you ?

At the end of the day I am only trying to better myself, and make sure that Im doing things the correct way, as I too would like to be fully competent and be doing my own EICRs one day.

D Skelton why did you think it was necessary to read my past posts and then comment I have only had my reg books for a year ?? I had the old Brown 16th edition books for a good 7 years before that, and was also borrowing my friends 17th edition ones before i bought my own. You are implying that i only started reading the regs a year ago ?!

I love this site, as it has been an extremely valuable tool for gaining extra knowledge, I just dont like the way some people on here are always putting down others accusing them of being incompetent e.t.c when all they are trying to do is get advice and better their understanding of a very complexed trade.

You guys with the wealth of experience and knowledge should maybe think back to the days when you knew far less and were greatful to get any help and advice from others, instead of shooting people down and trying to make them look stupid.

Ah stop with the self pity man. My post wasn't belittling at all, it was a word of caution to you as it was a fair assumption to make that a periodic inspection and test was being or was going to be conducted based on the wording and content of your first post. The very fact that you were asking this question goes to show that A. You haven't had a regs book for long, or B. That you haven't picked one up in a while. This was reinforced when I read in your past posts that you haven't had your 17th edition for very long. Having a 16th edition prior means nothing really as it is an irrelevant and out of date set of regs, that funnily enough didn't ask for sockets to have RCD protection unless they were for the supply of outdoor equipment anyway.

I made the point that you don't have enough experience to carry out inspection and testing, you also admit yourself that you don't. Where is the argument here?

Maybe if you had made the point that you're not conducting inspection and testing but were just wanting to expand your knowledge I wouldn't have warned you against doing so, but you didn't, so I did. If I suddenly piped up with questions about installing some MV switchgear at a substation I'd expect that there would be one or two members who'd be piping up with "Don't do it mate, you don't have the experience yet". However, if I started with "I'm starting my HV authorised person course in a few weeks and have some questions about MV switchgear...", the responses I would get I expect would differ somewhat.

So... My constructive advice, based upon the latest knowledge I have about you at my disposal, is to pick up your new regs book and make it your bed time reading material for about a year. This isn't a dig, it's exactly what I did when I was learning. I still pick it up from time to time now and have a flick through.

 

[Hobsoni]

Davesparks: admire your attention to detail son, but surely a bit of common sense would have prevailed for you piece together we were referring to Unsatisfactory / Satisfactory conditions..........even though the terms used we're pass/fail?

 

[shanky887614]

i would recommend getting the guidance note books.

i know a guy that has been doing testing and inspections for nearly 20 years and he regually refers to them and swears by them and bs7671

 

[clematis432]

Dazza, seen it all before here, some try to help, others try to be smart. Your post was well put and most importantly courteous, there are members here (same ones usually) that DO like to belittle. But most importantly the vast majority of members here DO try to help, making this site a very interesting place to browse or learn. But it is frustrating when somebody does belittle in a thread then a couple of numpties (same one,s usually) endorse it with "likes"

 

[Guest77]

Dazza, seen it all before here, some try to help, others try to be smart. Your post was well put and most importantly courteous, there are members here (same ones usually) that DO like to belittle. But most importantly the vast majority of members here DO try to help, making this site a very interesting place to browse or learn. But it is frustrating when somebody does belittle in a thread then a couple of numpties (same one,s usually) endorse it with "likes"

I have that word under copyright, you will be hearing from my Lawyer

 

[clematis432]

Ah stop with the self pity man. My post wasn't belittling at all, it was a word of caution to you as it was a fair assumption to make that a periodic inspection and test was being or was going to be conducted based on the wording and content of your first post. The very fact that you were asking this question goes to show that A. You haven't had a regs book for long, or B. That you haven't picked one up in a while. This was reinforced when I read in your past posts that you haven't had your 17th edition for very long. Having a 16th edition prior means nothing really as it is an irrelevant and out of date set of regs, that funnily enough didn't ask for sockets to have RCD protection unless they were for the supply of outdoor equipment anyway.

I made the point that you don't have enough experience to carry out inspection and testing, you also admit yourself that you don't. Where is the argument here?

Maybe if you had made the point that you're not conducting inspection and testing but were just wanting to expand your knowledge I wouldn't have warned you against doing so, but you didn't, so I did. If I suddenly piped up with questions about installing some MV switchgear at a substation I'd expect that there would be one or two members who'd be piping up with "Don't do it mate, you don't have the experience yet". However, if I started with "I'm starting my HV authorised person course in a few weeks and have some questions about MV switchgear...", the responses I would get I expect would differ somewhat.

So... My constructive advice, based upon the latest knowledge I have about you at my disposal, is to pick up your new regs book and make it your bed time reading material for about a year. This isn't a dig, it's exactly what I did when I was learning. I still pick it up from time to time now and have a flick through.

No D Skelton your post was not belittling was it ? Just a "word of caution" ? You are one of the worst "belitterers" on the site with plenty proof and history of this. WHY do you do it ? Sorry but people like you do frustrate me knowledgeable or not.

 

[telectrix]

clematis, you're climbing the wrong tree. damian is one of the most helpful posters on the site.

 

[D Skelton]

Dazza, seen it all before here, some try to help, others try to be smart. Your post was well put and most importantly courteous, there are members here (same ones usually) that DO like to belittle. But most importantly the vast majority of members here DO try to help, making this site a very interesting place to browse or learn. But it is frustrating when somebody does belittle in a thread then a couple of numpties (same one,s usually) endorse it with "likes"

Maybe these 'numpties' you speak of are just sick and tired of seeing the same old tosh day in day out from unskilled chancers who pop up on here asking us how to do their job! Ok it is clear that this isn't the case with this thread, but may I suggest that you think about re-defining your definition of 'numpty', and direct the insult at those who are destroying the industry instead of those doing their level best to save it!

No D Skelton your post was not belittling was it ? Just a "word of caution" ? You are one of the worst "belitterers" on the site with plenty proof and history of this. WHY do you do it ? Sorry but people like you do frustrate me knowledgeable or not.

Haha! How'd you figure that one out then Sherlock?! Plenty of proof hey?! Show me then?!

Before you do though, realise that I can see all of your past posts too and already I see evidence myself of so called 'belittling' posts by your definition by yourself!

Me, I like to think that telling someone that they're out of their depth and that seeking help may be the safest thing for them to do is useful advice. Apparently not though?! You'd far rather see people learning the hard way wouldn't you!

If calling a spade a spade is a bad trait in your book then so be it, but I'd rather say it how it is than avoid hot topics out of fear of offending someone. It seems too many people nowadays are professionally offended and I'd rather not pander to their needs if that's ok with you?

I'm by no means blowing smoke up my own backside but you need to bear in mind that you don't get nearly four hundred 'thanks' and over two and a half thousand 'likes' over the space of four years by being an a-hole do you?!

 

[PEG]

...Slow down lads,i don't know who to give a "like" to next...i want to fit in...but i like to be a rebel...there's only one way to find out...:6:

 

[brucelee]

Just take it on the chin mate and move on anything you don't like just ignore and focus on what is useful to you, I wouldn't be worried about a little ribbing if it means you still get the answer in the end. So be it if you learn the correct way to carry out the work before you do something you may regret, through lack of knowledge or experience
I would recommend reading GN3 or Cristopher kitchers guide to I&T along with BS7671 and the best practice guides of the government portal these will help you with how to carry out EICRs there are plenty other books that will help you with I&T