Refused to install a light fitting

[nickblake]

On a new build property 2nd fixing ,customer has bought everything cable switches light fittings etc with my advise of cable and sockets ,non of this cheap crap cable ill tell you , came to fit a light fitting ceiling light 80 watt halogen with glass diffuser , so why did i refuse to install it well three wires with heat sleeve on it ,into a terminal block terminal block was to big to fit onto the ceiling with the base so the only way to do it was to drill a hole through , i dont think so !!, so looking at the manufacturers instructions all in pictures push cable through ceiling ,connect cable and wrap with insulation tape !!! again i dont think so , you had to run the cables round the fitting then through the ceiling which left you about an inch ,im not even sure these cables could be classed as double insulated ,they are heat resistant with a sleeve covering part of the cable ,spoke to an irate woman at the suppliers in my eyes and the eyes of the ECA they are not good , even with other fittings the terminal block is a disgrace 3 amp 4 terminal so you can get the loops in , i think not only big enough for 1 1.5 and the quility terminals break when you tighten them up ,think its about time the lighting manufacturers had a shake up ,got some pics some where will post them later

 

[Des 56]

I can see your point.these light manufacturers take some beating for stupidity

The only way I can see installation can be improved is with a circular dry lining box to terminate them into

 

[pennywise]

20mm hole in the base, one 3.5 taped out hole or nut and bolt, screw 3 or 2 terminal ceramic block inside light fitting, supply from JB in ceiling via FP. Those instructions are great

 

[Dunc]

Definitely needs a round plasterboard box behind it and a new set of block connectors if nothing else. With the fitting being F rated it should be fine to mount to a plastic dry lining box but i'd prefer to just chuck it in the bin and buy a better one.

 

[nickblake]

its a good idea penny , problem is it has a 80 watt halogen lamp be difficult to secure the cables inside the fitting also did think about ceramic single connectors too girl on the phone said you shouldnt install anything on the back due to the heat ,think it should have an extract behind it if it gets that hot lol ,we did discuss the use of a circular dry lining box , but realy why should we have to go to that expense time included if the back of the fitting was deeper and fitted with a ceramic terminal block there wouldnt have been an issue ,just sent the pics to the ESC and asked for their opinion ,bet they love me there lol

 

[Des 56]

,just sent the pics to the ESC and asked for their opinion,bet they love me there

It seems you are going to wipe the floor with this manufacturer
If the Chinese hear of it and take offence, they may ban you from all their takeaways in Llangefni

 

[nickblake]

,just sent the pics to the ESC and asked for their opinion,bet they love me there

It seems you are going to wipe the floor with this manufacturer
If the Chinese hear of it and take offence, they may ban you from all their takeaways in Llangefni

just makes my blood boil lol , all goes quite and funny looks when i go through Llangefni

 

[nickblake]

Just to up date , i was correct in refusing to fit these fittings ,they actually do not comply in three ways , 1 the heat sleeve cannot be classed as insulation ,2 the connections should be within the enclosure ,3 the cables should be terminated in a suitable box and not be in singles , the reason the fittings are still available is because people still keep buying them they are CE marked but have no BS standards which i find strange , so where next .. trading standards i think lol ohh they gonna hate me , no its rediculas have you seen the latest fitting how the hell we managed to fit this

 

[Geordie Spark]

I've often thought that the people who design things should spend a minimum of 10 years on the tools before they are allowed anywhere near a drawing board, and then after they've designed something should be made to try to fit it.

 

[Adam W]

Just to up date , i was correct in refusing to fit these fittings ,they actually do not comply in three ways , 1 the heat sleeve cannot be classed as insulation ,2 the connections should be within the enclosure ,3 the cables should be terminated in a suitable box and not be in singles

Just out of interest where did that extra information come from?

Is that a reading lamp in the picture? I used to fit those when I was doing boats; they weren't that difficult to install - just crimp the supplies on.... Of course those ran off 24v dc - it looks like the fitting above is exactly the same but it's been 'modified' to run directly off the mains.

As much as I understand the trend for 'modern' decorative fittings I don't understand this trend for making the base plate as small as possible and therefore unnecessarily difficult to install - IMO the bit which sits against the ceiling should be as big as possible to allow sufficient space to make the terminations, to cover up any holes in the ceiling left from previous fittings, rose etc, and to increase the fixing area and hence the chance of getting a screw into a joist.

 

[johnboy6083]

If the base on a new fitting is big enough, then I leave the old 3 plate in, and connect to that. Of course not many fittings are big enough to do this, but it's easy if space allows.

 

[mogga]

Having just moved house the mrs decided she didnt like a couple of light fittings so off we went to big orange shed
BAD move on her part and the wee "Electrical specalist" was ready for chucking it after I demanded they open box of 5 fittings the wife had chosen and asked for the manager due to similar concerens about space/terminals quality of manufacture ect ect Then I asked about the instructions
These fittings with a fixing bar and two screw poking out the side Terminals arent enclosed
The screws to fix the weighty fitting to the wee flimsy bar

 

[nickblake]

the fitting in the picture is about 50mm diameter very small there is a transformer and also a switch you can get the termnial block in but add the wires and its a very tight fit

Novus the extra info came from the ESC had a very long conversation with the technical guy there , i personally this its abut time we sparks got together and made them change the fitting for ease of installation the magority of them are CE marked but many comply with BS EN !!!!!

 

[telectrix]

the market is flooded with these nice shiny far eastern fittings that attract the female of the species like a new pair of shoes. solution is simple. instead of flooding the market with this crap, flood the channel tunnel.

 

[Adam W]

It makes you wonder how DIYers are supposed to install them.
Keeps the DIs busy I suppose.

 

[sjhall]

This light is simlar to the one you refused to fit , whoever fitted it decided to just cut a small hole in the plaster and jam the connector blocks inbetweed the fitting and the ceiling
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/ste5lfc/03ee5cb0.jpg
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/ste5lfc/635fc7ed.jpg