Register with Sparksafe to bid on Council work in Northern Ireland

[trev]

No, nothing to do with an American boy band.
It appears that there's a new scam surfaced in Northern Ireland, in order to bid on local authority contracts you have to be registered with Sparksafe.
I'm waiting for a guy to respond to some questions I've asked him re minimum qualification levels, costs, benefits to members etc etc. More info as and when I get it but I wonder how long it will be before it's imported to the mainland.

 

[123]

Re: New kids on the block

I hold a SparkSafe Qualified Electrician licence. There is a fee for the three-year validity on the licence (which is operated through a computer system and does not involve a physical card). Main contractors also need to have a Contractors' licence. Then subcontractors/employees accept a connection to the contractor through the system, showing the make-up of the workforce for the client.

It is being piloted on certain public sector contracts, so it isn't quite correct to say that it hasn't got off the ground. The contracts tendered for last year have only started to become "live", so it is becoming a requirement moreso each passing day.

In what areas and contracts?

Housing Exec throughout NI hasn't changed on NICEIC being needed to the best of my knowledge?

 

[Risteard]

Re: New kids on the block

In what areas and contracts?

Housing Exec throughout NI hasn't changed on NICEIC being needed to the best of my knowledge?

This is precisely my point. SparkSafe has nothing to do with NICEIC or any other similar body. It is about licencing of individual workers. NIHE as an example may require NICEIC certificates, but may further require from the contractor that their entire workforce including subcontractors are licenced under the SparkSafe initiative. They will stipulate what percentage are to be Qualified Electricians, Restricted Electrical Workers and Apprentice Electricians. Furthermore they can view the makeup of the workforce through the system to ensure compliance.

None of this has anything to do with NICEIC, ECA or similar bodies.

 

[123]

Re: New kids on the block

This is precisely my point. SparkSafe has nothing to do with NICEIC or any other similar body. It is about licencing of individual workers. NIHE as an example may require NICEIC certificates, but may further require from the contractor that their entire workforce including subcontractors are licenced under the SparkSafe initiative. They will stipulate what percentage are to be Qualified Electricians, Restricted Electrical Workers and Apprentice Electricians. Furthermore they can view the makeup of the workforce through the system to ensure compliance.

None of this has anything to do with NICEIC, ECA or similar bodies.

So a company needs to be NICEIC to do Housing Exec work. Company and anyone working for them also need to be Sparksafe.

SCAM!!!!!!!!

 

[123]

Re: New kids on the block

And having looked at the requirements - its just a blooming JIB card rebadged and at a much much heftier rate!

 

[Risteard]

Re: New kids on the block

And having looked at the requirements - its just a blooming JIB card rebadged and at a much much heftier rate!

When applying your entire work history, as well as qualifications and JIB card have to be submitted. I know that the company I served my time with were contacted by SparkSafe to verify details.

Many here (and you are of course entitled to disagree) view it as a serious attempt to prevent unqualified people working, and I certainly welcome that.

 

[trev]

Do they have any teeth? I'd guess not.
Any scheme of individual competence has to have them, and the willingness and the wherewithall to use them.

 

[Risteard]

Do they have any teeth? I'd guess not.
Any scheme of individual competence has to have them, and the willingness and the wherewithall to use them.

Of course. Without it you will be excluded from working on many public sector contracts.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Of course. Without it you will be excluded from working on many public sector contracts.

Looks like a good thing to me. looking out for the trade with regards to minimum qualifications etc, without it you won't get any public sector work and the only contractors that will be in fear of it are the ones who wouldn't meet the criteria for joining.

 

[123]

Of course. Without it you will be excluded from working on many public sector contracts.

What locations? Belfast and Country Antrim . Is this Housing Exec work, council work or government work?

If its so important why don't they just ask for JIB cards. A systems that's long been established as well.

I think there was a court case here involving one big contractor (Red Sky perhaps?) where the judge ruled that to be a fully qualified spark they should have the 2391. But that could all be Chinese whispers!

 

[123]

Looks like a good thing to me. looking out for the trade with regards to minimum qualifications etc, without it you won't get any public sector work and the only contractors that will be in fear of it are the ones who wouldn't meet the criteria for joining.

Shouldn't the Part P scams in England do that already for your hefty fee? Why would you need to have Part P scam and this as well?

I don't see anything about site visits on this one, it's a hefty admin fee for a computer based system...does changing a renewal date really cost £40, and wtf are you paying for in the £120? At least with the JIB I can have a nice gold plastic card, not even a blooming card with this

 

[Leesparkykent]

Shouldn't the Part P scams in England do that already for your hefty fee? Why would you need to have Part P scam and this as well?

I don't see anything about site visits on this one, it's a hefty admin fee for a computer based system...does changing a renewal date really cost £40, and wtf are you paying for in the £120? At least with the JIB I can have a nice gold plastic card, not even a blooming card with this

But for a principal contractor it would pay for itself when vetting contractors that have tendered.
And save the contractor who is tendering time/money as you could be vetted against it and employees also and in the long run would pay for itself not having to go through the same thing every time with different principal contractors as it's all in one place.

 

[123]

Totally lost me Lee, even with the edit.

I need to pay £160/3 years for what? And also need to pay NIC another £468/year as this licence is merely a standalone scam add on?

 

[Risteard]

What locations? Belfast and Country Antrim . Is this Housing Exec work, council work or government work?

I don't know off hand precisely which bodies are piloting it, although I don't believe that it is restricted to Belfast. I know that the Housing Executive were one of the bodies which were particularly interested in SparkSafe, but I believe Education Boards and perhaps Health Boards may also have been.

If its so important why don't they just ask for JIB cards. A systems that's long been established as well.

I asked that question of Derek Thompson at the time that SparkSafe was being proposed. My understanding is that the JIB did not feel that it could be used as a de facto licence (although your JIB grading etc. is considered in the application process). As you will know all ETT-run Apprenticeships here are through the JIB Apprentice Training Scheme.

I think there was a court case here involving one big contractor (Red Sky perhaps?) where the judge ruled that to be a fully qualified spark they should have the 2391. But that could all be Chinese whispers!

No, the judge complained that there was no definition of a Qualified Electrician - and that he felt that there should be an accepted standard, and this was a major factor behind the development of SparkSafe. I don't believe that the case had anything to do with Red Sky although I may be mistaken. Red Sky were infamous for fraudulently claiming millions from Housing Executive maintenance contracts - pretending that they had done work which had not been done (an example being that they claimed for replacing more doors in a house than even existed).

 

[BLBelfast]

Interesting. I'm an Approved JIB electrician and have been in Australia for a couple of years. When I return to Belfast is it likely companies will be asking for this endorsement, which I will have to pay for, or is it not that wide spread yet. Also the work references I will have will not be recent so how would that stand with this sparksafe??

 

[amckay]

Does jib exist in Ireland? If not, I suppose that sparksafe would be just like the jib? Bit steep tho at £160 for three years. However it could be OK if (and that's a big if) you could have a sparksafe card and not be required to be niceic etc...
I agree with trev that they're scams, but it has crossed my mind that they could serve a place in the industry. With all the Electrical Trainee courses that more and more people seem to be doing, organisations like jib should do more to protect proper sparks from loosing out on work to them.
I don't blame Electrical Trainee's, I blame a lack of knowledge on what it takes to be a spark, they just want a career change but don't know where to find the correct info on the internet. This is where the likes of the jib should do more.