regs for a kitchen

[egginyourface]

it doesnt say anywhere in the regs that appliances in the kitchen need to be connected to a fused spur then to an outlet.

same with hobs and showers.

its good practice to put in points isolation incase a fault arises and you need to isolate appliance easily with out pulling it outto access outlet.

 

[kilty55]

i assume the current regs are 17th edition were working off just now am i correct,

hello egginyour face i have spoke to the electrician twice in the last 20 mins and he assures me there is nothing wrong with placing the plug behind the cooker itself same for the integrated microwave.

initially i thought he had them off a spur as there are a number of spurs above the worktop for diff appliances however he hasnt got a spur visible for the cooker and micro as these were the only 2 items changed everything else was like for like

so the only way to turn off the oven is by pulling it out is this legal egg?

many thanks

 

[Des 56]

Everybodys definition of accessability may be different

There are some who say a means of isolation should be un obstructed and/or above a worktop or even in a cupboard

There is another view that, as long as the appliance can be moved,the outlet is then available.so a socket behind a cooker or movable appliance is accessable,

You have to have your own definition and be able to argue the case if it is questioned

 

[malcolmsanford]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

I don't think anyone as posted that is is illigal or bad practice to fit a socket behind an appliance Jamie. That is a normal occurance in kitchen installations.

Ok again it is legal/good practice to fit a double pole switch/ Fused spur outlet above the counter and then fit a single unswitched socket outlet behind the appliance under the counter. This is normal. As the switch/spur unit will be your accessible switch for isolation and maintenace.

It is not illigal to fit that above counter switch in a cupboard if that is the only place it can go, as long as it is still accessible. What we would term bad practice is to do it. As electricians we would prefer the first method, but sometimes it's not possible so we fit a switch in a cupboard.

Is that clearer

 

[accordfire]

i assume the current regs are 17th edition were working off just now am i correct,

hello egginyour face i have spoke to the electrician twice in the last 20 mins and he assures me there is nothing wrong with placing the plug behind the cooker itself same for the integrated microwave.

initially i thought he had them off a spur as there are a number of spurs above the worktop for diff appliances however he hasnt got a spur visible for the cooker and micro as these were the only 2 items changed everything else was like for like

so the only way to turn off the oven is by pulling it out is this legal egg?

many thanks

In actual fact, it's covered by regulation 537.3 so everyone is clear - egginyourface, that would be 5.2 in the OSG.......

The cooker should have a visible isolation switch in an accessible position - adjacent on the wall, or above - either a dedicated cooker isolator switch or a spur of some sort if it is a low power unit.

If the microwave is built in - i.e. in a cabinet, then it should have the same means of isolation as other fixed/built in/built under appliances.

And yes, 17th edition, strictly BS7671:2008 Wiring Regulations

Cheers.

 

[kilty55]

hello malcolm,lol no its no clearer

okay we chose to put the switch behind the oven as i didnt want to fill all the customers cupboards with plugs

without going into what is good and bad practice in certain peoples eyes as im getting conflicting advice here and its confusing me all i really need to know is it against regulations to place a single plug in socket behind an oven with no other way of turnign it off apart from removing that oven.

if the answer is yes its against currect regulations then i will pay my sparky out my pocket to go fix it
if the answer is no its not against current regulations then i will be asking my customer to pay for the work.

hope someone can shed light on this ta jamie

 

[egginyourface]

theres nothing illegal about it and dont see how it could be used against you i a court of law...

i think it depends on what building control will say as there not very clued up with regs of anything and they seem to make things up as they go along.

thats why personally i put a isolation point for every item in a kitchen, utlility room or any other fixed appliance.

any way, your electrician is correct

 

[malcolmsanford]

hi all,ok i have just spoke to the sparky,he says the hobtop wich he installed has a fused spur with neon light to isolate it but the single oven is directly plugged into a socket which is housed behind the oven,he seems to think there is nothing worng with this.

is he correct lads or does this need moved to a cupboard by law

As he is the electrcian that is going to sign his work off then let him and walk away. It is his call, if he thinks that is accessible then it is.

If in the future if there is a problem, and the oven could not be isolated then he must explain why he considered this method of installation as accessible. He signs the certifiacte and therefore is he responsible

 

[kilty55]

not beiing rude here guys but who is correct,egg in your face is telling me my electrician is okay and others are telling me hes not?

 

[Des 56]

Accessability,Accessability and Accessability

His definition of the above is what matters,he is signing to that effect

If his decision is questioned,he must be ready to explain his reason for doing so to the interested parties

Its not my chosen method,but it would be difficult to argue against the fact that by removing the appliance, access is gained
Its may not be as accessable as my chosen methods, but nevertheless its still accessable

If I had to come down on a decision one way or the other,I would side with your electrician reluctantly

 

[kilty55]

would it be acceptable to place the socket in the cupboard under neath the oven and microwave?
is this an okay position safety wise

 

[malcolmsanford]

would it be acceptable to place the socket in the cupboard under neath the oven and microwave?
is this an okay position safety wise

What does your electrician say???

 

[accordfire]

not beiing rude here guys but who is correct,egg in your face is telling me my electrician is okay and others are telling me hes not?

The technical answer is, if your electrician says it's ok, and is prepared to certificate that, then you've nothing to worry about.

However I think most of us are saying that it is GOOD PRACTICE to fit an "easily" accessible isolation device, in accordance with regulation 537.3 - I may have said 537.2 earlier (but it is in fact 537.3 either way).

Once he signs it off, the risk is on him if it isn't truly accessible in the way it should be.

 

[malcolmsanford]

The technical answer is, if your electrician says it's ok, and is prepared to certificate that, then you've nothing to worry about.

However I think most of us are saying that it is GOOD PRACTICE to fit an "easily" accessible isolation device, in accordance with regulation 537.3 - I may have said 537.2 earlier (but it is in fact 537.3 either way).

Once he signs it off, the risk is on him if it isn't truly accessible in the way it should be.

That's alright Bill let you off this time mate How are you feeling bud ok?

I'm starting to get a feeling there might not be a friendly local Sparks involved here

 

[accordfire]

That's alright Bill let you off this time mate How are you feeling bud ok?

I'm starting to get a feeling there might not be a friendly local Sparks involved here

Lol - I just checked - I did actually say 537.3 the first time (phew!) - for some reason I convinced myself writing that last I'd put .2 for some reason!

Not doing too bad mate - keeping the company chin up, so to speak.

I think you may be right - sounds like a guy who's done the min poss, to make it look like the job's done. Interesting to see what his cert says.....