Regulation clarification

[Jimmy Boy]

Hi Chaps thanks for looking.

I am presently rectifying all the faults found in 21 or so properties found under PIR, however one is quite irritating to cure not to say potentially expensive this is the old chestnut of doubling up circuits at the board, I have spoken to nikky they are adamant its a code 2

314.4 BGB covers this and it's hard to argue but if you read App 15 it states an unfused spur ( A socket?) can be connected at the board albeit only one, but 521.8.2.seems to contradict this.

Options, bigger board, split the tails and new small board, remove the doubled up circuits and use the now spare way to feed a new small board, what do you think lads ?

Cheers S

 

[Octopus]

Coding on a EICR, IMHO, probably C3, unless you've got a radial on a 32A breaker using 2.5mm and then its a C2.

 

[telectrix]

if it's 1 socket outlet on an unfused spur taken from origin ( i.e. stuck in with a 32A RFC), then it's perfectly acceptable. as it's then part of the RFC circuit, 521.8.2 and 31.4 do not apply, as it is not a separate circuit.

 

[AndyL]

Hi Steve, 314.4 and 521.8.2 both talk about final circuits being seperate, 2 cables coming from 1 CB mean they are 1 final circuit whereas in the old days they may have taken a line from downstairs lighting circuit and neutral from upstairs
whereas App 15 is concerning spurs from a ring, so still in effect the same circuit.

 

[spark 68]

May I ask which circuits are doubled up ?

As putting App 15 to one side for a moment, I think we all have seen where say an extension, garage or conservatory lighting circuit has been doubled up with existing lighting circuit, and using the MCB as a JB is not precluded in the regs, as you say it becomes part of the same circuit.

 

[Mr.Ian]

What are the circuits that are doubled up? as said above a spur can be taken from any part of the rfc even from the c/u.

 

[johnboy6083]

I suggest taking a look at the definition of a circuit. It states " An assembly of electrical equipment supplied form the same origin, and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device (s)"

BS7671, part 2, Definitions

 

[telectrix]

ifc it is 2 socket circuits doubled up into 1 MCB, then it's basically a bridged RFC. while poor practice, i can't see a potential danger and so would code it C3.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

As always great advice I will ponder this, as mentioned above of course I won't be leaving any circuits doubled where the MCB rating is greater than the CCC of the cable but it seems nikky have tied my hands

 

[spark 68]

of course I won't be leaving any circuits doubled where the MCB rating is greater than the CCC of the cable but it seems nikky have tied my hands

Why do you say that ?, we follow BS7671, the NIC don't make the rules, they just think they do :rofl:

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Sorry I meant to add, I keep reading 314.4 and can't see the wood for the trees, it specifically states that final circuits must be connected to a separate way in the dis board, so I take that to read that i could run a spur from it for one socket or one fixed FCU but not a circuit serving sockets (s) good point about definition tho in part 2, how would you argue this with nikky ?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I say hand tied because the leccy who did the PIR's wont sign them off as corrected as he is a nikky spark

 

[spark 68]

Can I ask again which circuits have been doubled up ?, is it an immediate danger C1 ?, is it potentially dangerous C2 ?, does it just not fully comply with the latest regs, or other ? C3,

If you follow the guidence in BS7671, you as the competent person do not have to justify anything to the NIC, until you provide further information, that is about all we can say, guidence is for the wise man, blind obedience is for fools :ihih:

 

[Octopus]

I have spoken to nikky they are adamant its a code 2

Well I say Nikki are wrong, based on what you've told us its a Code 3 or no code.

Can you be more specific about the circuits which are doubled up?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I haven't got the reports in front of me but from memory they are 3x2.5's in a 16 breaker so no danger