Replacing a GU10/MR16 downlight above the stairwell

[LittleTyke]

My house, built 2004, is fitted with over 30 downlights upstairs and downstairs. When I moved in, all the lights had halogen bulbs. Several years ago I replaced them with 3.4W LED bulbs and the cost saving was noticeable over a few months, especially in winter. However, the LEDs required LED drivers as the old halogen transformers were not suitable. I purchased enough LED drivers and set to work. To replace the transformer with the driver you must remove the downlight body from the ceiling. Each lamp body pushes into a 65mm diameter hole in the plasterboard. They are easy to pull out. When you pull one out, the cable comes down, too, and it is very straightforward to swap the devices. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RELEVANT MAINS CIRCUIT ISOLATED AT THE CONSUMER UNIT!

This is a simple job for all downlights except one. This pesky exception is 4.5m above the stairwell and is inaccessible without a tall ladder. But a ladder would need to be rested on the stairs somehow. Potentially very risky, especially if you're doing the work on your own. But this lamp IS accessible from the loft! You just need to clamber up into the loft and your "rogue" lamp is sitting there in the plasterboard. You can push it downwards and out of the 65mm hole. Once out, the cable is long enough to reach the bulb and driver from the landing. Then you can replace the bulb, transformer or driver easily.

The problem comes when it's time to push the lamp body back through the ceiling hole. Can't be done! You don't have a long enough reach from the landing!

It's because of the (in my opinion, rather stupid) design of these downlights (see upper photo below). Each downlight is equipped with two butterfly springs. Each spring has a long leg and a short leg. The principle of the design is that you push the lamp through the hole and the short legs spring back against the hole to hold the lamp in position. On the other side of the hole the long legs collapse down onto the plasterboard and the whole ridiculous design is now firmly in place. But you have to push very firmly on the lamp body, because you're pushing against the short legs of the springs, which are quite strong. Without being directly beneath the lamp, e.g. on a precarious ladder, you cannot push the lamp back in!

My solution is as follows. Get a replacement lamp body with modern, single-legged spring clips (see lower photo below). These spring clips are of a different design and simply spring down again the plasterboard to hold the lamp. Then you can assemble the lamp body and cable - it's dangling down out of the ceiling hole, remember! - go back up into the loft and gingerly pull the cable upwards and the lamp body with it. You will already have drawn the two spring clips together and put a cable tie around them to keep them vertical as the lamp is slid through the hole. As soon as the lamp is seated against the plasterboard, grab your sidecutters and snip though the cable tie. Immediately the spring clips spring down against the plasterboard and you can breathe again! The lamp is secure. First thing then to do is switch the power on to check that the lamp lights up.

The top photo shows the existing fixture with the butterfly spring clips.

The lower picture is the new fixture with single legged spring clips.

Final thoughts: Some ceiling holes (in other houses) are, I'm told, larger or smaller than 65mm, so you need to check in your particular case. Note, too, that the single legged clips do not hold the lamp as firmly in the ceiling, but these GU10/MR16 downlights are very lightweight.

 

[davesparks]

I'm lost, what is your question here?

 

[LittleTyke]

It was not a question. I just thought I would share my solution with others in a similar situation.

 

[UNG]

I always find a telescopic ladder is a good solution with a ladder stand off if needed

 

[DPG]

I'm lost, what is your question here?

He's obviously giving a solution to a problem people may come across. Seems quite decent of him to be honest.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

He's obviously giving a solution to a problem people may come across. Seems quite decent of him to be honest.

It is decent of him. Have to admit though, I did get a little lost along the way

 

[littlespark]

First thing I would do is get rid of the transformers/ drivers and put in 230V GU10 lamps.

 

[LittleTyke]

First thing I would do is get rid of the transformers/ drivers and put in 230V GU10 lamps.

Why? The 12V LED drivers work fine. To do what you suggest would mean buying 30 230V bulbs.

 

[DPG]

Why? The 12V LED drivers work fine.

Something else to go wrong. Some electronic drivers are not the most reliable thing. If you use mains rated lamps then no need for any electronics.

Dont get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with using drivers.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Why? The 12V LED drivers work fine. To do what you suggest would mean buying 30 230V bulbs.

Over the years you come across quite a number of faults on Mr16's. They have more point of failures than GU10's.

They can fail on the driver, but also the little terminal blocks joining the lamp holder to the driver often have thermal damage due to them being ELV. Lastly, the lamp holder with the 2 little pins seems to fail far more often than a GU10 lamp holder.

I would say for every one damaged/faulty GU10 holder, I come across 50 damaged MR16's. That is being realistic, not exaggerating.

 

[KungFuTurkeyLeg]

My preference would be 230v GU10 LEDs without any drivers, just another thing to go sideways

 

[davesparks]

First thing I would do is get rid of the transformers/ drivers and put in 230V GU10 lamps.

Personally I'd use integrated fittings rather than GU10.

They can fail on the driver, but also the little terminal blocks joining the lamp holder to the driver often have thermal damage due to them being ELV. Lastly, the lamp holder with the 2 little pins seems to fail far more often than a GU10 lamp holder

How much of that damage do you think is down to them being cooked by the original halogen MR16 lamps rather than being caused by the LED replacement?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Personally I'd use integrated fittings rather than GU10.




How much of that damage do you think is down to them being cooked by the original halogen MR16 lamps rather than being caused by the LED replacement?

I agree, I mainly use integrated, although I struggle with the environmental implications, as I expect it is worse.

Yes, with LED's the current will be significantly less and I would think the (thermal) damage is likely to have been caused by the high current of the previously used halogens.

 

[davesparks]

I agree, I mainly use integrated, although I struggle with the environmental implications, as I expect it is worse.

I'm not sure on the environmental implications, a good quality integrated fitting will last many years and be more energy efficient than the GU10 lamp equivalent.

Yes, with LED's the current will be significantly less and I would think the (thermal) damage is likely to have been caused by the high current of the previously used halogens.

I think the biggest source of heat damage was the dichroic lamps, these had a dichroic reflector which reflected visible light but allowed infra red to pass out the back of the lamp. This is why they were so good at charring joists when fitted too close.
This is also why when the fire rated 'tin can' type fittings came around the instructions stated you must use aluminium reflector lamps and not the dichroic lamps.

There was a higher temperature version of the lampholder, all manner of disco lights and lighting effects used them with the 100W lamp (I think it was 100W) and they still ended up burnt and crispy.