Rewirable fuses and the old wylex boards

[Edd]

(copy from a previous post i made)

Dont know If people have looked closely at the Wylex type of rewirble fuse boards? Without the screw on cover over the fuses there is exposed live parts on show under and on top of the fuse carrier... about 2- 3mm
If the fuse cover is missing (not the carrier but the 4/6 way cover) and the fuses can be seen, this goes against reg 416.2.2
If the cover is there and can be undone without a tool then again I think this goes against the same reg..

look at the top of this board,,

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[Specialist]

Yes but if some Muppet leaves a Blank off of a New type board you've also got access to live conductors & a lot more than 2-3mm. There must be an awful lot of CU's out there contravening the Regs then, if not needing to use a tool to undo the Fuse / Breaker covers is against the Regs.
What you need to remember is that these boards were'nt made to comply with the 17th edition Regs & as long as they are safe to use and fit for purpose then they don't have to comply.

 

[Edd]

If someone leave a blank out a board then they might as well leave a socket hanging off,, infact leaving a socket hanging off probley exposes less live parts.

most wylex boards I see have the cover missing and theres a live bit of brass looking at me. It may have been safe years ago, but tell that to the mother whos kid has just poked a bit of metal in the hole..
exposed conductive parts on show,, code 2 if out of reach,, but at low level under the stairs,, code 1,, kids just love playing under the stairs

 

[i=p/u]

comes under overcurrent.. and now you ask whats this.. ;_)

overload? Whats that :rolleyes4:

 

[Specialist]

Ask yourself what happens with the nice new board & same kid pokes his finger into it through the missing Blank ? Just because you don't like them does'nt make them unsafe. As for the mother who's kid just poked a bit of metal in the hole, has to be asked what sort of mother lets her kid play anywhere near any type of CU, if it's in a cupboard low down then any resposible parent would lock the cupboard to keep they're kids out.
Just out of interest: How many times have you heard of anyone getting a belt or being Electrocuted by touching 1 of these exposed live parts ? I've been in the Trade nearly 40 years & i've never heard of 1.

 

[Edd]

Ask yourself what happens with the nice new board & same kid pokes his finger into it through the missing Blank ? Just because you don't like them does'nt make them unsafe. As for the mother who's kid just poked a bit of metal in the hole, has to be asked what sort of mother lets her kid play anywhere near any type of CU, if it's in a cupboard low down then any resposible parent would lock the cupboard to keep they're kids out.

so just because the mother let her kid neer ther fuse board shes to blame,, not the electrician who missed the blanks. I like that..
Didnt say I didnt like them,, and as I said code 1 for exposed conductive parts,,, if a blank is missing code 1, if you saw a blank missing and there was an exposed conductive bus bar on show you would be under a duty of care to fit the blank..
if I saw a wylex board with the fuse cover missing i would have a duty of care to cover the exposed conductive parts and make safe till i fitted a replacement fuse cover or replace the board..
IM sorry but If you really think having a Live part on show and just saying it was ok when the board was made, Or saying its ok to have live stuff on show and if a child gets a shock its the mothers fault,, you really need to have a re think....
Personally if I can see live parts blanks missing or wylex fuse covers missing,, I as a profesional really think I have a duty of care to sort it out and make it safe...

 

[Edd]

Just out of interest: How many times have you heard of anyone getting a belt or being Electrocuted by touching 1 of these exposed live parts ? I've been in the Trade nearly 40 years & i've never heard of 1.

look at post 9 here,, 40 years you may not have but other have
http://www.electriciansforums.net/i...allations/46861-periodic-rewirable-board.html

 

[Edd]

Just too say Im not trying too get into an argument,, but Just joined in the discustion,,I posted the regs That corisponded to the problem with rewireble fuseboards etc,, then found myself having to defend my post..

 

[IQ Electrical]

Just too say Im not trying too get into an argument,, but Just joined in the discustion,,I posted the regs That corisponded to the problem with rewireble fuseboards etc,, then found myself having to defend my post..

Just to throw another point in, what is the IP rating and corresponding value in mm for surfaces other than 'the horizontal top surface' ?

Opinions or not, that IP would probably be met even in the Wylex scenario that you describe.

 

[Edd]

as for The areas other than horizontal, I cant and havent thought about it,, im just going with the very common fault where the screw over fuse cover is missing (not the carrier)

I like wylex rewirble boards, they are bullet proof, and will give decades of service when used corectly,, my OP was to warn people that if the fuse cover was missing then exposed parts against regulation 416.2.2 would be on show. Its not my opinion,, The reg says,,,,,

A Horizontal top surface or barrier or enclosure which is readily accessible shall provide a degree of protection of at least IPXXD or IP4X

IP4X Very small objects (1mm)

I dont make the regs but do my best to follow them...

Note its this bit im saying when missing is the problem

http://www.flameport.com/electric/old_equipment/brown_wylex_fusecover.jpg

 

[baldsparkies]

I can tell you for a fact.
That over the years I have known of two people who needed to attend hospital replacing rewirable fuses in those darn antiquated boards.
One was the burns unit. The guy replaced a 30amp fuse on a ringmain with a dead short. I know cus I had to make the repairs to damaged cpc's.
The flash over caught him on the soft skin between thumb and forefinger.
The other was the eye hospital. He needed treatment due to a condition called ark eye. Its normally associated with welders. Apparently the ark flash can cause temporary damage to the eyes retina, if viewed at close range.
With an mcb the faults not so aggressive. the device simply pops out.
But we know that. We also no its a bad idea to replace a fuse whilst the circuits are energised.
But we are electricians. These two guys were not.
Just another spoke to add to the rewirable fuseboard wheel.

 

[Engineer54]

This is getting ridiculous now!! It's like hearing these numpties say that the Wylex wooden open back CU are a fire risk!! Really, has anyone seen or heard of one going up in flames?? Nope because they DON'T!! They used treated mature seasoned hard wood, you try setting fire to an old one you have removed and see how far you get. You'll probably need a blow touch on it ...and for a long time too....lol!! But i've bet more than just one or two of you have seen melted down blobs, that were once a modern CU!!...lol!!!


As for this crap about seeing a bit of brass through the gap of these old Wylex CU's when the covers off Whoopee, as others have pointed out, modern CU's with missing blanks are far more than a risk than than that couple of mm.


Yes, these old Wylex CU's have past there sell-by date with regards to the coarse protection they afford compared to a modern CU, but they are certainly not dangerous by anyone's stretch of imagination.


Oh and by the way they didn't just come in 4 and 6 way forms, i've seen plenty of 12 way Wylex rewireable CU's and pretty sure there were bigger ones too.... If you look carefully, the bus and fuse holder sections were formed in pairs or fours that were expendable, so always came in round numbers 2/4/6/8/10 and so on...

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Modern CU blanks are not what you call secure anyway, most will pop out with minimal pressure, certainly access without the use of a tool

 

[Knobhead]

My first house had two 8 way Wylex boards that I fitted (they were the best on the market at the time). When the MCB’s became available I fitted them. Both boards had a separate 500mA RCCB.

We had to work with what was on the market at the time. I will say that in over 20+ years I never had a fuse blow or MCB trip due a fault. Just to add to the confusion there were two sub boards fed from the main boards.
The one in my dark room was a Telemecanique board with a 10mA RCD.
Again not many houses could boast a 110V ring main and 100V DC radials.

 

[Edd]

I give up