RIP - Winston Churchill

[R G]

So 50 years since his funeral!

A rare Politician compared to the bunch of idiots these days. Whether you liked his views or not, you knew where he stood and what for (like Tony Benn).

Now Tony Benn , I do admire him , he would have made a good PM ....

 

[Des 56]

Either way, it's customary to remember the dead for what they accomplished, not for their shortcomings.



That would be a fine sentiment if that were indeed the case Adam

An extreem example I know,but I would think the relatives of the victims of Harold Shipman have his qualities as a medical practitioner who healed the sick at the very bottom of what is customary for them to remember

Any man needs to be remembered as a whole,its not good to only cherry pick the parts that suit

 

[Guest77]

Miners seem a hard bunch to please.

Either way, it's customary to remember the dead for what they accomplished, not for their shortcomings.
Not many people can say they won a world war.

Crawling around a mile underground breathing in sh$t all day sweating from hard graft is probably one reason combined with no other work around the areas they live another, and nothing special in the pay department another, you would get a kicking in several areas of the country with that comment, I would love to add some more comments to this reply, but it would without doubt get me a lifetime ban, I won't reply to your expected reply to this either, so knock yourself out, have a nice day Adam.

 

[RogertheBodger]

1,271,511 British servicemen and women can say they won TWO world wars, or could, if they hadn't been killed in action.

Figure from wiki.

 

[GMES]

Winston was a great guy, but was he in the same league as this one!

 

[ruston]

Winston was a great guy, but was he in the same league as this one!

Ohhh Yesss

 

[trev]

A good leader in time of need? Maybe.
A great guy? I think not.
While firm, decisive leadership was what was needed at the time and provided by Churchill would his rousing speeches have been so successful if Hitler had launched Operation Sea Lion instead of Operation Barbarossa?
However, Hitler screwed up and his mistake ended up costing Germany everything.

 

[RogertheBodger]

A good leader in time of need? Maybe.
A great guy? I think not.
While firm, decisive leadership was what was needed at the time and provided by Churchill would his rousing speeches have been so successful if Hitler had launched Operation Sea Lion instead of Operation Barbarossa?
However, Hitler screwed up and his mistake ended up costing Germany everything.

Churchill's refusal to surrender tied up a lot of the German army in France, had he been able to use those forces against Russia, the outcome may have been different.

 

[Barry White]

He was certainly the man to have on your side during a war he was ruthless and cunning and I aplaud him for that.
As a polititian he didnt do well he was ruthless and cunning with the miners to favour his rich peers (but didnt hide his actions like the polititions of today)
Modern primeministers hide well behind the official secrets act etc say one thin do another.Thatcher hid well shooting the Belgrano whilst it was heading away from the prohibited area but the news at the time said it entered the area at her request. She used underhand tactics to destroy the unions starting with the miners then proceeded to sell off our assets leaving a "britain we live in now"
We are that poor in resourses Churchill and god couldent help us now!

 

[Adam W]

Either way, it's customary to remember the dead for what they accomplished, not for their shortcomings.



That would be a fine sentiment if that were indeed the case Adam

An extreem example I know,but I would think the relatives of the victims of Harold Shipman have his qualities as a medical practitioner who healed the sick at the very bottom of what is customary for them to remember

Any man needs to be remembered as a whole,its not good to only cherry pick the parts that suit

OK maybe it's more about striking a balance then, and remembering the person for what they stood out for the most.
Harold Shipman may have healed the sick, but that was his job. Thousands of GPs heal the sick every day without special recognition. Overall though Shipman was a terrible GP because he killed his patients, which is what he will be remembered for.
Likewise Jimmy Saville nearly went down in history for all his charity work, until it came out that he was history's most profligate nonce, and he'll be remembered as that instead.

Winston Churchill is most often remembered as the prime minister who won the war; there have been several other prime ministers who have upset the miners.

 

[Des 56]

OK maybe it's more about striking a balance then, and remembering the person for what they stood out for the most.
Harold Shipman may have healed the sick, but that was his job. Thousands of GPs heal the sick every day without special recognition. Overall though Shipman was a terrible GP because he killed his patients, which is what he will be remembered for.
Likewise Jimmy Saville nearly went down in history for all his charity work, until it came out that he was history's most profligate nonce, and he'll be remembered as that instead.

Winston Churchill is most often remembered as the prime minister who won the war; there have been several other prime ministers who have upset the miners.

Sorry to have to disrupt this thread again
I know it was set up to honour a person and maybe the rest of the posts will reflect the sentiment of the opening post


however I want to respond to the above

Your quote about the miners misses the whole point I have made in this thread
It was not to attack the person who many adore,it was to point out,for good or bad, that he was more than just the war hero,when he is remembered,it is right that we remember him for all his actions, not just the ones that sit comfortable with the people

Yes politicians of all sorts have screwed not only the miners but most workers over the years,it is going on now with this industry
That is not the point

It was an industrial dispute that could have meant life or death to those workers (if they accepted the owners actions) they had to do what was necessary to survive

Unlike all other political leaders,this man Churchill turned the British army out in battle mode against his own people in an industrial dispute,that can never be forgotten when he his saluted for his achievement's

 

[trev]

there have been several other prime ministers who have upset the miners.

So that makes his actions acceptable?
Edit
Beaten to it by Des

 

[specs]

A great man, he also saw the coming of Islamic terrorists.

 

[Guest77]

A great man, he also saw the coming of Islamic terrorists.

What about Catholic terrorists? did he see the coming of them?

 

[Guest77]

Sorry to have to disrupt this thread again
I know it was set up to honour a person and maybe the rest of the posts will reflect the sentiment of the opening post


however I want to respond to the above

Your quote about the miners misses the whole point I have made in this thread
It was not to attack the person who many adore,it was to point out,for good or bad, that he was more than just the war hero,when he is remembered,it is right that we remember him for all his actions, not just the ones that sit comfortable with the people

Yes politicians of all sorts have screwed not only the miners but most workers over the years,it is going on now with this industry
That is not the point

It was an industrial dispute that could have meant life or death to those workers (if they accepted the owners actions) they had to do what was necessary to survive

Unlike all other political leaders,this man Churchill turned the British army out in battle mode against his own people in an industrial dispute,that can never be forgotten when he his saluted for his achievement's

Brilliantly pointed out.