Sealing a consumer unit entry points??

[leebut]

Hello Guys


I'm going to put my Tin hat on and close the curtains so the Regs police can't arrest me for asking this question again, I can only find old threads pre 18th edition so please advise me if I'm missing something


I've just been watching a guy on Youtube doing a board change who's said that to comply with the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations you must seal ALL entry holes into a consumer unit regardless of them coming through the bottom, top, sides or rear entry with a suitable intumescent mastic to stop the spread of fire into the fabrication of the building!!!


I personally am NOT aware that anything changed in the 18th Edition to say all entry points have to be fire sealed I've been looking online tonight and can only find write ups from "Wiring Matters"

Stating


Sealing of wiring entries
It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables - see Figure 6. The intent of the sealing is to ensure that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.
Good workmanship and proper materials must be used, and account must be taken of the manufacturer’s relevant instructions, if any.


Regulation 421.1.201 Does not mention sealing any apertures in a consumer unit with, grommets, glands or sealant and does not mention that the Metal clad board cannot be fitted to a timber backboard. So why is the IET saying we are to be sealing the holes , personally I've been installing all my boards with cables entering from behind and mounting my boards on the existing wooden backboards using a length of stick on trunking as a framework around the consumer unit.


Am I wrong???

 

[Midwest]

I use the sticky trunking to stand my metal clad consumer unit off the wall or wooden back board so my cables all enter the board through the rear entry holes so that flames from this non existent fire can’t escape the CU, I very rarely knock a knock out of either the sides or top

One thing I like about Hager & Wylex CU's, is they also manufacturer (metal) wall spacers for their products. Not cheap, but look better than anything I could replicate.

 

[Midwest]

Maintaining the fire integrity of a metal consumer unit surely is common sense no?
My jtl guy that did our 18th is also an NICEIC inspector he was very passionate about fire safety to the point we should also be fitting intumescent pads in the back of plastic boxes in stud partitions. A little added protection never hurts anyone and for the sake of £2.89 I will continue to do so.

I've posted this vid a few times now, and it is getting a bit old, so the guidance isn't current, but I can't see things have changed that much. 3.55mins discusses CU's & sealing thereof;

https://electrical.------.org/wirin...l-discussion-1-at-the-elex-show-in-harrogate/

I think using sealant of any kind, is a bit of a bodge. A CU by nature will need additions from time to time; its not like sealing a bath, shower etc.

 

[Midwest]

Because I've have OCD's

I also worked on a building where a metal control board set on fire inside and the heat was intense enough for the wooden partition next to it to spontaneously com-busted, even though the flames did not escape the metal enclosure. I was quite astonished by this at the time and it stuck in my mind.

A larger distribution board in a commercial or industrial setting, might need different considerations; a simple domestic CU does not need all these fire retardant measures.

 

[FatAlan]

Last couple of CU's I've done, where the cables come through large rear entry I've sandwiched a piece of intumescent pad between the enclosure and wall/board prior to fixing the enclosure. Ive then cut a cross in the pad, fed the cables through and then moulded the pad back round the cables as they enter to reduce and seal the gap. Not sure if thats better than filling with sealer or worth the effort especially if its a busy box.

 

[telectrix]

bad enough having to seal cut-out fuses and meters without all this crap as well.

 

[Dustydazzler]

bad enough having to seal cut-out fuses and meters without all this crap as well.

Do you use expanding fire foam or intumescent mastic ?

 

[Midwest]

Last couple of CU's I've done, where the cables come through large rear entry I've sandwiched a piece of intumescent pad between the enclosure and wall/board prior to fixing the enclosure. Ive then cut a cross in the pad, fed the cables through and then moulded the pad back round the cables as they enter to reduce and seal the gap. Not sure if thats better than filling with sealer or worth the effort especially if its a busy box.

Why for so? If the cables came out of a cavity (naughty) perhaps. Just out from the back, I don't see why you should go to that expense.

I'm no longer current, but have you ask your scheme for guidance?

All this extra work cost someone money, and it seems to me to be an unnecessary.

 

[FatAlan]

One of the installs was on a board mounted on couple of patterns to allow access from behind. Goes back to previous threads about mounting on wood which numerous meters and CU's seem to have been mounted on over the years.

Must admit the lower specified IP ratings for the side and bottom of enclosures doesn't exactly support a case for making the enclosures sealed enough to prevent a chimney effect as I believe someone mentioned earlier.

If we were serious about reducing the risk of fire due to poor or loose connections perhaps the manufacturers should come up with a design that eliminates having to get a small bit of exposed copper into a barely visible slot and then tighten up a screw!

Some of the kit we are asked to install is utter c**p when it comes to any consideration that has been given in respect of ease or practicality of installation.

 

[richy3333]

I’m glad my videos bring awareness to such grey areas in the industry. This is exactly why I make videos on a public format so they get shared around and discussed. Appreciate any feedback good or bad. Even though some of you guys are damn right nasty without even knowing me.

@Reevio - It's somewhat childish to refer to us on this forum as a bunch of old women. You to are a member and therefore by definition must be an old woman also?

Here is my feedback, 'good or bad'...

The thing with Youtube is to a certain extent watchers do know you in thatchy know the quality of the work you do and whether it is right or wrong.

I've seen a few of your videos and do applaud you that you have the aptitude to do the videos. You clearly have your sycophants by virtue of some of the comments they make. I watched the videos for entertainment value not for technical content or quality. I've seen you give totally wrong statements/advice in your Youtube comments and again totally wrong information in the videos.

An example that springs to mind is the house where the owner took down a stud wall in the kitchen/lounge area. You jointed the cables using Wago connectors and then ----ed the lot in the ceiling void utilising either a Wagobox or a Wagobox light professing it was mainatenece free. It clearly was no such thing in the manner you had installed it and you could not have ever looked at any Wago literature on how to install the things.

I've also seen you install downlighters way too close to timber joists thinking that is ok to do.

I regret to say that I have a first year apprentice that knows both of the above examples are a not correct.

Can I ask your background because sometimes you are CRS, sometimes HRS. Most of your videos are electrical based but there were some where you did building work. Are you a builder by trade? Did you do an apprenticeship or a Electrical Trainee course?

I don't think the situation surrounding fire sealing is a grey area and other more respected and knowledgeable people on here have already pointed out your errors.

I dont think you make these videos to 'highlight grey areas and so they get shared around and discussed' (my paraphrasing) because if that were the case you'd not be making 'bog standard videos' of domestic rewires et al. How do they shed light on grey areas of the industry? You're a member here. I challenge you to post your 'grey area' videos here first for industry discussion, though I anticipate you won't have the nerve to do so???

 

[Toneyz]

Why don’t manufacturers just make a ‘19th addition’ non combustion bomb and fire proof surface mounting accessory for domesticated consumer unit wiring.

Kind like a surface wiring patters just much larger and supply with it a tube of flame retardant sealant to caulk in any gaps or holes

Because they need to sell us Amd. 1,2 & 3 regs books etc first.

 

[ipf]

Like the smoke packets @telectrix leaves in there?

You mean his Woodbine silver paper 'fuses' ?

 

[westward10]

I cannot believe the lengths people are going to to fire proof a non fire proof enclosure.

 

[Reevio]

@Reevio - It's somewhat childish to refer to us on this forum as a bunch of old women. You to are a member and therefore by definition must be an old woman also?

Here is my feedback, 'good or bad'...

The thing with Youtube is to a certain extent watchers do know you in thatchy know the quality of the work you do and whether it is right or wrong.

I've seen a few of your videos and do applaud you that you have the aptitude to do the videos. You clearly have your sycophants by virtue of some of the comments they make. I watched the videos for entertainment value not for technical content or quality. I've seen you give totally wrong statements/advice in your Youtube comments and again totally wrong information in the videos.

An example that springs to mind is the house where the owner took down a stud wall in the kitchen/lounge area. You jointed the cables using Wago connectors and then ****ed the lot in the ceiling void utilising either a Wagobox or a Wagobox light professing it was mainatenece free. It clearly was no such thing in the manner you had installed it and you could not have ever looked at any Wago literature on how to install the things.

I've also seen you install downlighters way too close to timber joists thinking that is ok to do.

I regret to say that I have a first year apprentice that knows both of the above examples are a not correct.

Can I ask your background because sometimes you are CRS, sometimes HRS. Most of your videos are electrical based but there were some where you did building work. Are you a builder by trade? Did you do an apprenticeship or a Electrical Trainee course?

I don't think the situation surrounding fire sealing is a grey area and other more respected and knowledgeable people on here have already pointed out your errors.

I dont think you make these videos to 'highlight grey areas and so they get shared around and discussed' (my paraphrasing) because if that were the case you'd not be making 'bog standard videos' of domestic rewires et al. How do they shed light on grey areas of the industry? You're a member here. I challenge you to post your 'grey area' videos here first for industry discussion, though I anticipate you won't have the nerve to do so???

Give me a call tomorrow we can have a chat

 

[matthutch1298]

I can't believe that there are still queries about 18th edition this far on after it was introduced.

 

[ipf]

I can't believe that there are still queries about 18th edition this far on after it was introduced.

We still get queries about the 14th edition ….