Secondary Switchboard for kitchen from Primary Switchboard

[guest119]

Yes Ian, Keniff was starting to give advice and I was tempted to comment like you did.
There are times to advise and times advisable not to.

Boydy

 

[Engineer54]

when you say "underneath the wall cupboards", i sincerely hope you mean on the wall and not fixed to the cupboards themselves!.

I ''think'' he means something along the lines of one of these.... Fixing to wall and wall cabinet. He would better off using the trunking rather than the individual modules. He can then mount and change position of outlets as and where required. My even be able to fit his grid type switches using one of these systems too...

Marshall Tufflex> Home > Cable Management > Domestic / Commercial Trunking > Bench Trunking

Marshall Tufflex> Home > Cable Management > Domestic / Commercial Trunking > Bench Trunking

Not sure if he is thinking along the lines of the ''pop-up'' worktop fitted socket outlets?? I hope not, they are basically just a fancy extension lead affair

 

[chrish_1977]

Sounds more like he wants to do it his way and stuff the regs

 

[Adam W]

Sounds more like he wants to do it his way and stuff the regs

LOL it sounds like one of those threads which goes:
"can I do this?"
"not really, no - there are much better ways of doing it"
"yes but can I do this?"
"it's really not a good idea"
"but do the regs expressly forbid it?"
"the regs don't work like that"
"so there's nothing which says I can't do it?"
"sigh."

Apparently in Italy you can't use several appliances at the same time without it all tripping out. They just seem to accept it as a fact of life.

 

[Octopus]

Sounds more like he wants to do it his way and stuff the regs

Probably doesn't even know regs apply!

 

[Redvanman]

I ''think'' he means something along the lines of one of these.... Fixing to wall and wall cabinet. He would better off using the trunking rather than the individual modules. He can then mount and change position of outlets as and where required. My even be able to fit his grid type switches using one of these systems too...

Marshall Tufflex> Home > Cable Management > Domestic / Commercial Trunking > Bench Trunking

Marshall Tufflex> Home > Cable Management > Domestic / Commercial Trunking > Bench Trunking

Not sure if he is thinking along the lines of the ''pop-up'' worktop fitted socket outlets?? I hope not, they are basically just a fancy extension lead affair

Engineer I reckon he means these

Under Cabinet Sockets in DIY Electrical Fittings | eBay

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer I reckon he means these

Under Cabinet Sockets in DIY Electrical Fittings | eBay

Which is basically what i said he means, regardless of what manufacturer he chooses. I must say, those eBay units look like really cheap and nasty outlets.

 

[bartkusal]

I am currently working on my kitchen and I am centralising the switches for all appliances (Fridge, 2 Ovens, Induction Hob, Hood, Dishwasher, Washing Machine, boiler and counter sockets) on a secondary switchboard.

In order to do that I am running a 6mm multi-thread cable from the main switchboard (with a circuit breaker of 100Amp) to a secondary switchboard (with a circuit breaker of 40Amp).

The 6mm cables I am using are FG7(O)R that are supposed to carry around 50 Amp.

1) The person that recommended this setting says that the 6mm cable is absolutely fine to feed the secondary switchboard and that 40 amp are enough for a normal use of the appliances in the kitchen without the circuit breaker jumping.

2) Because I want to get the electrics certified I spoke with an electrician and he told me that the 6mm cable is not enough and 40 Amp for the kitchen might not be enough. He is reccomending a 25mm cables from the primary switchboard to the secondary switchboard with earth on a 10mm cable coming form the main earth.

I got two concerns:

1. I am a bit puzzled, before I changed the kitchen I had two 2.5 mm cables going into the kitchen that were running a similar number of appliances therefore I thought that a 6mm multi-thread cable was actually oversized to run the appliances.

2. Are the 40 amp of the secondary switchboard circuit breaker enough for a normal use of the appliances in the kitchen considering that the induction hob at full capacity uses 28 amp and that I might run washing machine (13 amp) dishwasher (13 amp) oven (15 amp) at the same time without considering boiler and fridge that might start at any time?

To be honest 25mm cables seem a bit too big to feed the secondary switchboard... but will a 6mm cable be enough? What if I start using the secondary switchboard and I realise I need a 60 amp breaker instead of the 40amp one?


Any suggestion about what I should do and who is right?

Thank you for your answers and apologies if similar question have been posted before, I tried to search the forum but I could not find anything relevant.

And we all missed the obvious. The OP is planning to protect the 50A cable, with a 100A MCB.

 

[frarex]

Thanks again for your replies.

I am now looking for an electrician to make sure that everything is ok...

In the meantime I run a 10mm2 (64A) cable from the main CU, to the secondary CU, I will probably start using it with the 40A breaker and if it jumps too easily I will change it with a 63A breaker.

FYI The under cabinet sockets I got are:

Double socket | Häfele UK Ltd

Other issue is:
- the person that designed the kitchen cabling did the sockets as "radial" (i.e. one cable to the CU for each plug) rather than "ring". We meant to use a box (which is difficult to find) to connect (with a 6mm cable) the 7 sockets to a 32A switch. The first electrician that came around to have a look said that that radial is not possible in the UK because ring is the standard and if I want do do it radial I need a switch in the CU for each plug. Is this correct?

Radial systems should be more secure, because if the ring breaks the a 2.5 mm cable might overheat... somewhere I read that that is one reason why fires because of electric faults are more common in the UK than in other countries.

The Uk is the only country where "rings" are used.

 

[guest119]

Yep,I always thought this was a wind up.

Boydy

 

[Engineer54]

Your just not going to listen to any sense that you are being given are you ?? Your still going to be a complete bloody idiot by using MCB's as socket outlet switches, when there is no need whatsoever. Not only that, your going to mount a CU in a kitchen cabinet!! lol!!

Oh, and those kitchen fitting shop under cabinet outlets you posted up, well they are going to last about 5 minutes!! They even have a 10A restriction rating on them before you start!! lol!! Are you sure these are not fixed extension leads, because they very much look like it to me!!!

Complete waste of anybodies time and effort advising anything to you, because you seem to know far better than everyone here!! Good luck to you on your project, i'm thinking your going to need it, if not now then later, when this can of worms is finished!!

somewhere I read that that is one reason why fires because of electric faults are more common in the UK than in other countries.

You really do read some crap don't you. You must believe everthing you read, try looking at domestic electrical fires in the States!! lol!!

 

[Outspoken]

Thanks again for your replies.

I am now looking for an electrician to make sure that everything is ok...

In the meantime I run a 10mm2 (64A) cable from the main CU, to the secondary CU, I will probably start using it with the 40A breaker and if it jumps too easily I will change it with a 63A breaker.

FYI The under cabinet sockets I got are:

Double socket | Häfele UK Ltd

Other issue is:
- the person that designed the kitchen cabling did the sockets as "radial" (i.e. one cable to the CU for each plug) rather than "ring". We meant to use a box (which is difficult to find) to connect (with a 6mm cable) the 7 sockets to a 32A switch. The first electrician that came around to have a look said that that radial is not possible in the UK because ring is the standard and if I want do do it radial I need a switch in the CU for each plug. Is this correct?

Radial systems should be more secure, because if the ring breaks the a 2.5 mm cable might overheat... somewhere I read that that is one reason why fires because of electric faults are more common in the UK than in other countries.

The Uk is the only country where "rings" are used.

What utter drivel. Sorry, but you're not listening to advice given and what you are proposing is a total nonsense. There are far simpler ways to achieve your ends and doing it safely and in a compliant way.

You have NO understanding of electricity and no understanding of what you actually want to do, stick to your day Job and lets the professionals do theirs, in the long run you will save money by shutting up and allowing an electrician to solve the problem for you...all you need to do is tell him/her what you want and allow them to decide the most practical path.

Dump the idea of a sub-main to a separate board, it is a total nonsense in a domestic setting and does nothing to solve your problem, you have no more thought this out than Nick Clegg thinks before speaking!

 

[telectrix]

love the nick clegg reference.

and sounds like the OP is going to use frogs for OCPDs.

 

[Silvermerlin]

Get a qualified electrician in to do the job, It will be done right and correctly tested and certified

 

[Brightspark2]

Which is basically what i said he means, regardless of what manufacturer he chooses. I must say, those eBay units look like really cheap and nasty outlets.

Probably made in china........