Section 75

[MicraShed]

I have been asking my PV installer since last August last year for the details of their underwriter for the "10 year insurance backed guarantee" on the install and panels.

Originally I was fobbed off with "I dont have that information to hand" now they are not replying to me at all.

I have come to the inevitable conclusion that the Guarantee would be useful if I ran out of toilet paper but otherwise worthless.

I did pay on my credit card for the install so wonder if I could invoke section 75 of the credit act should there be a problem and should the company go out of business / refuse to help but I wonder what time limit there would be on that or whether I could buy an independent warranty from a warranty company.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[dansk]

Normally the warranty is through QANWthat's a good place to start, but there are other offering insurance such as IWA to name, assuming the installer registered your job you could try phone them, I find QANW very helpful on the phone. QANW Services Website | Providing Insurance Backed Guarantees and Latent Defect Insurance

- - - Updated - - -

QANW is who operates the REAL scheme.

 

[Gavin A]

Iif you had a warranty insurance through them then they'd have posted out the details direct to the customer, so I'm guessing that the installer has pulled a fast one and not registered it. It's only £35 or so per install so there's no excuse really IMO other than incompetence or extreme financial problems.

 

[dansk]

I agree, but to give the benefit of doubt the paperwork may never have landed, we all know Royal Mail fails sometimes/often in my case.

 

[Gavin A]

yes, that's possible.

simple enough to chase up for the installer though eh

 

[sedgy34]

if they are not returning your calls, are they still in business???? the royal mail thing does happen too as its happened to us with warranty getting lost.

 

[infinity]

I Always hand the warranty over when they pay the deposit as it covers this too. Do most of you post the warranty after completion?

 

[SolarCity]

Yeah, we sort the warranty out after completion. We do a return trip after a week to check that everything is running as expected and then sort the warranty out then. We don't take deposits.

 

[MicraShed]

The company seem to be trading still, I have emailed them again to ask them for details. Other than that I suppose I can lodge a complaint with REAL (ha!) but I think I'll be relying om my section 75 - I dont suppose I can apply for a warranty with QANW myself giving them the details of the install and MCS number etc - no thought not.

 

[richy3333]

Section 75 of the Consumer Protection Act isn't a warranty scheme/system but for dealing with defective products - goods and services

 

[MicraShed]

Section 75 of the Consumer Protection Act isn't a warranty scheme/system but for dealing with defective products - goods and services

I realise and understand that, however if my installer has promised a given level of service (10 year warranty) but fails to deliver this, then surely that is a defective/ deficient service in which they have failed to deliver what was paid for and contractually agreed (I do have this in writing both pre install and in the aftercare pack).

I expect that any claim under section 75 would probably be limited to the cost of an independent warranty (should such a thing be possible).

 

[grantr37]

I thought a Section 75 was a Demolition order :6:

 

[Earthstore]

If I recall correctly there is a time limit under section 75, I think it may be 100 or 120 days, may be worth looking it up before you go down that route.

I hope this helps.

 

[jason121]

[h=1]General DAWWI Scheme FAQs[/h]
[h=1]What happens if the system was purchased via credit card, or via finance agreement?[/h]The insurance policies exclude situations where the consumer is protected by legislation such as the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Therefore, where the consumer has paid under a finance agreement or by credit card they will be required to seek recourse through the credit provider in the first instance.

 

[MicraShed]

There is a 120-day limit on claims which is "typically the expected delivery date of the goods or services not provided

Now the company have provided me with a guarantee that states that I should approach them in the first instance (but have failed to tell me who to approach should they go bust), so should I have a fault I would assume that my 120 days start from then should they not repair the fault. Interestingly AMEX start the clock at the day a company goes into administration whether you are aware of that or not, Mastercard fortunately do not.

 

[puddy]

Yes you can claim under section 75 its for goods and services as well don't believe all the myths banded about. Inform you credit card company now and keep copies of everything and approach trading standards.

 

[MicraShed]

Well, another week has gone past without any response from ****** Solar which is quite annoying to say the least.
At the moment Im not sure what I would be claiming for under Section 75 as I assume that its impossible to gain a retro warranty for an already installed system.

 

[sedgy34]

Well, another week has gone past without any response from ****** Solar which is quite annoying to say the least.
At the moment Im not sure what I would be claiming for under Section 75 as I assume that its impossible to gain a retro warranty for an already installed system.

Send them a solicitors letter that may get your warranty

 

[SRE]

Or go to the office and sit inside until they issue you one. One of my colleagues did this to a company who owed him money and he sat for 6 hours til he got it. He had of course parked right across the boss's car so he couldn't get out!

 

[MicraShed]

Well, after emailing REAL in September last year they have just replied to me and sent a letter on my behalf to the installer.

Im not hopeful that this will actually achieve anything as I get the impression that REAL are about as effective as a chocolate fireguard (I hope Im wrong about this). I have involved my credit card company and with a bit of luck may speak to the installer and try and galvanise a response.
Again, Im not holding my breath.

 

[puddy]

Hopefully they will cancel their ability to take payment by card. You could write to the company telling them you are asking for the merchant licence to revoked unless they send you your warranty. Talk to trading standards

 

[MicraShed]

I dont really want to cause the company any aggro, but I would like what I paid for with regards the install ( ie the insurance backed warranty).

Contract on Flickr
Other bits which were quoted for but were not used were things like scaffold - the roofers did the lot off ladders (going up the front of the house, over the ridge and down the back with rails and panels and all). The other slight worry is the company trades using two names, but they both have the same "company number" and VAT number. Odd. But we'll see if I get my paperwork. As I say Im not really holding my breath.

 

[puddy]

You paid to have a job done they took your money I would be causing them has much aggro as they have given you. Talk to trading standards please. Have you googled the company to see if they have done this before ?.Plus its a breach of contract.

 

[MicraShed]

Quick Q

The card company are now involved and as ever I have said that ultimately I want the insurance backed guarantee - does anyone feel that the time for getting this has come and gone now due to the time elapsed?
Its taken this long to get REAL to send their complaint in on my behalf after I complained to them at the start of September last year.

Or will a company insure the install even now? I have tried to see if there was any after market install insurance products but can find nothing at all.

 

[sedgy34]

Is this company still trading? If so make a complaint to their accreditation body they should be able to enforce the company sort his out

 

[MicraShed]

Is this company still trading? If so make a complaint to their accreditation body they should be able to enforce the company sort his out

They are and assuming REAL are their accreditation body (who they are registered with) I have.
Ive been there and got nowhere.
Unless you mean MCS?

 

[sedgy34]

Your missing the point for instance if they are accredited with Niceic for instance you complain to them because whoever us Mcs installers are accredited with is who the consumer complains to cause they are there for you apparently

 

[Worcester]

They are NOT there for contractual issues that is beyond their remit, their registering body is ONLY there for quality / standard of workmanship.
Talk to NAPIT/ NICEIC / Elecsa etc they'll all tell you precisely that. - is the WORK to standard?

Therefore contractual issues SHOULD be part of the consumer protection side - AAAH that'll be REAL then ... :banghead:

 

[MicraShed]

Little update.
REAL got nowhere fast, the credit card company have indeed prodded buttock and by the sounds of it threatened a charge back with the company concerned.

I have had an email today telling me the paperwork I have to fill in and send off to the IWA is in the post.

So, we will see if it arrives....

 

[sedgy34]

Result!!! IWA are ok we use them

 

[provr6]

I think you will find the IWA biz warranty is near useless. They will only match the guarantee offered by the installer in the event they go bust. That means the installer needs to give a 10 year guarantee which they will have to uphold all the time they are solvent.

How many installers give a 10 year guarantee? mine didn't give any company guarantee just a 10 year backed IWA biz warranty which would match his warranty ie none.

I wasn't too worried as the inverter has its own 5 year warranty and the panels their own 10 year.

 

[MicraShed]

I think you will find the IWA biz warranty is near useless. They will only match the guarantee offered by the installer in the event they go bust.

Having got the IWA paperwork today I agree, that they only offer to mirror the warranty offered by the installer - which despite my contract saying :

is in fact only a 2 year warranty when the paperwork was sent to me. So in effect the IWA warranty covers me for 2 years only. ( the contract says scaffolding as well, but they just installed it all off ladders with no scaffold erected)

Hardly a 10 year insurance backed warranty then (which if Im honest is the key reason I signed with this installer).

Back to the credit card company then to see what they feel.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

Little update.
REAL got nowhere fast, the credit card company have indeed prodded buttock and by the sounds of it threatened a charge back with the company concerned.

The threat of a chargeback would hopefully do the trick because it raises a fine against them from the CC company and, i think, can be attached to their credit rating; which could do more damage that REAL seems able to muster. You would have thought that they would WANT to do right by you as they are still trading though, not be forced to!! Are you naming them?

 

[MicraShed]

Finally got the 10 year guarantee.

I am flabbergasted the amount of aggro and 9 months its taken to get to this point but I have just posted the paperwork off to the IWA with a copy of the guarantee the installer has now finally delivered! I do believe it was only as a direct result of the credit card company getting involved though that I have finally got this.

 

[puddy]

Great news

 

[Earthstore]

Well done,

Thanks for letting everybody know, it may be an inspiration to others that the battle is worth it.

 

[Gavin A]

Well done,

Thanks for letting everybody know, it may be an inspiration to others that the battle is worth it.

yeah, until you actually try to claim on the policy of course...

 

[MicraShed]

yeah, until you actually try to claim on the policy of course...

Oh ye of little faith:biggrin5:
Aye well, we'll cross that rickety bridge as and when we come to it!

 

[jason121]

yeah, until you actually try to claim on the policy of course...

I agree. At the moment I am trying to help resolve a dispute that a disable woman has with her solar thermal system, which is leaking at the pump station and has issues with the flashing kit, which is also leaking. I told her before I could repair it she better phone REAL they told her that it was a technical issue speak to NAPIT. They have come back and said system is out of warranty. NAPIT will only provide 2 years. System is around 30 months old. So she spoke to REAL again, they told her go back to NAPIT because they need paper work from NAPIT. The company is still trading but ignoring her calls and have moved offices. Now this company is using his MCS to sign off another company work and together have set up three other companies installing a lot of High temp ASHP, Eventually the companies will be dissolved and the new companies will start to trade. All warranties out the window for both companies. I have left it, with her phoning the insurance backed warranty. Saga with continue.:rant:

 

[Gavin A]

what ****es me off is that I'm a sole trader, so the liability rests with me whether still trading or not unless I declare myself personally bankrupt.

Limited companies however seem to be free to close the company down at will to avoid liability issues for warranties etc with no come back on the directors at all, and it's these companies where the insurance is then needed to cover the warranty liabilities that they've wriggled out of. Which means that effectively we're subsidising those shoddy companies who're only in it for a quick buck / prefer to cut and run rather than getting on with it and meeting their liabilities, and yet we've still had customers who've decided to go with someone else because we're not a limited company...

I just don't get why the uk public seems to have such greater trust in ltd companies when all they really are is a mechanism for shoddy directors to escape their liabilities with no come back on them personally. Every company that has ever gone bust owing me money, where I've never seen a penny from them of that money has been a limited company, as has been every solar company that's shut down that I'm aware of and left their customers in the lurch....... [/rant].

eta - not that I'm making out that all ltd companies are shoddy obviously, just that virtually all the cut and run type of companies are limited companies as this framework enables them to do it time and time again with minimal danger of any come back to them personally.