Security Light Nightmare

[cyberjunction]

Evening Guys

Need some "light" shedding if possible on a PME Installtion

About to change a secuirty light which is wired to the light circuit.

Live to Neutral 0V
Live to Earth 230V
Neutral to Earth 230V worrying

The cabling is almost impossible to trace it goes into the wall down and "disappears." I have lifted the boards I can get to but now need to start knocking the wall down to physically trace the cable.

Turning off the light circuit downstairs I get 0V so its definately connected to that circuit . Killing the sockets has no effect

I get continuity for earth and line to the nearest light fitting but not for neutral.

New consumer Unit Installed about 6 months ago , but not sure if the light was working before that. Any suggestions welcome.

Just to confirm the light is wired to a 3 way light switch for the hall and landing but only the line is connected, there seems not to be a return to the light yet it still functions by switching the switch so totally at a lost.

All voltage light fittings downstairs are correct.

Still a newbie so be gentle

Any advice appreciated.
Many thanks


Thinking about just cutting and replacing but would rather solve the issue.

 

[cyberjunction]

All sorted, junction box in the kitchen wired up wrongly, must have been blind, Wander lead to all fittings and using the Kewtech Lightmate job done.

Line Was Neutral
Neutral Was Earth
Earth Was Line

I was more interested where the fault lay as to why the readings I was getting

 

[mogga]

CALL A FULLY QUALIFIED<EXPERIENCED ELECTRICIAN ie NOT a 5 week wonder D.I.

 

[alarm man]

All sorted, junction box in the kitchen wired up wrongly, must have been blind, Wander lead to all fittings using the Kewtech Lightmate job done.

what was it then..

 

[keniff]

I take it was the line and cpc connected opposite in the junction box? Potential dangerous situation!!

 

[alarm man]

i blame the proper spark who done the work in the first place,fair play to the lad,quick course and he's sussed the fault..

 

[cyberjunction]

I wish I was a "lad" Im an old git just trying to get on....

AS I said I have no intention going out to fault find until I get proper on the job work experience, I know the basics got the certs but I would only go alone when Experienced. Theres a line between certified and experienced and I know where I lie.....for now

cheers for now....and no I dont blame the sparkys for giving the DI's like me grief but we have to start somewhere and providing we know what is safe and what is not then its a good start

 

[Mfctitch]

Evening all
can someone please explain why there have been so many negitave remarks to this member. I am in the same boat had joined this forum for help and guidance but lately there have been a lot of people who have asked questions and have been shot down.
Yes it would be great if we could all know everything but no amount of class time and book reading can help when you're out in the real world.
and let's not forget that some of the problems have been cause but some so called time served sparks, who due to the fact that they have been in the business for years just get sloppy.
Would you time served sparks prefer it if we just bumbled along or that we tried to put things right in a professional manner.

 

[trev]

Mfctitch I can only speak for myself obviously but I guess I'm one of those who you think have given negative comments to the OP. In my opinion it is my duty as an electrician to give the best advice possible, where I believe someone is out of their depth I will give the "Get an electrician" line but I believe that where I give this advice it is the appropriate response.
I think the forum exists to give advice and it's a good thing that it exists, most members will give advice and try to help wherever possible but sometimes that advice can be seen as negative, I'm sure that in most instances that is not the case.

 

[Mfctitch]

Thanks for reply
I'm lucky enought to have a friend who I can call if I have a problem even if 9 times out of 10 I know the answer.
i understand your frustration but we did not set the system up. But we have payed out vast somes of money to try and do things right.
plus what makes thing worse is the amount of times I've done small jobs and no one has asked for paper work.
if you time served sparks what to do something constructive then you need to get the general public to view electricians like they do gas installers.

 

[UNG]

i blame the proper spark who done the work in the first place,fair play to the lad,quick course and he's sussed the fault..

What an assumption to make!! Are you sure it was installed by a "proper spark" or a DIYer

Evening all
can someone please explain why there have been so many negitave remarks to this member. I am in the same boat had joined this forum for help and guidance but lately there have been a lot of people who have asked questions and have been shot down.
Yes it would be great if we could all know everything but no amount of class time and book reading can help when you're out in the real world.
and let's not forget that some of the problems have been cause but some so called time served sparks, who due to the fact that they have been in the business for years just get sloppy.
Would you time served sparks prefer it if we just bumbled along or that we tried to put things right in a professional manner.

Why is suggesting getting a spark in or suggesting that someone is out of their depth being negative

Your reference to "so called time served sparks" may be they are just that, for years this industry has been swamped with quick fix be a spark in 5 weeks training courses. It used to be that experience was gained from 36 days (9am - 7:30pm) a year at college and the rest on the job learning the trade with qualified sparks for 4 -5 years how do you condense that into 5 weeks!

Ask yourself what would you do without this forum or the internet to solve your on site issues and problems could you continue as a "spark" without this experience resource. Is this why so many training providers sponsor this board so that the lack of training and experience they provide is covered by the help their students get from it

Mfctitch I can only speak for myself obviously but I guess I'm one of those who you think have given negative comments to the OP. In my opinion it is my duty as an electrician to give the best advice possible, where I believe someone is out of their depth I will give the "Get an electrician" line but I believe that where I give this advice it is the appropriate response.
I think the forum exists to give advice and it's a good thing that it exists, most members will give advice and try to help wherever possible but sometimes that advice can be seen as negative, I'm sure that in most instances that is not the case.

Got to agree, while the comments may be negative the truth is often painful if they are considered to be out of their depth. The aggressive posts where the poster doesn't get a response in 2 minutes are the ones that get my back up, if we choose to not respond to something may be the poster needs to read between the lines

Thanks for reply
I'm lucky enought to have a friend who I can call if I have a problem even if 9 times out of 10 I know the answer.
i understand your frustration but we did not set the system up. But we have payed out vast somes of money to try and do things right.
plus what makes thing worse is the amount of times I've done small jobs and no one has asked for paper work.
if you time served sparks what to do something constructive then you need to get the general public to view electricians like they do gas installers.

I think we have all heard "its going to cost how much its only a few wires" or the press full of adverts " it only takes 5 weeks to become a spark" is possibly how the general public now view us

Yes the 5 week training providers along with the government have so devalued the "spark" and the whole industry

While you have "paid out vast sums of money" do you not think we all have with many years of training. Did you get value for money if your training didn't fully equip you to be a spark

This forum is a good knowledge resource but I feel it should not be used as a substitute for basic experience

 

[malcolmsanford]

I think we have all heard "its going to cost how much its only a few wires" or the press full of adverts " it only takes 5 weeks to become a spark" is possibly how the general public now view us

Yes the 5 week training providers along with the government have so devalued the "spark" and the whole industry

Ung if ever there was a nail that was squarely hit on it's head it is these 2 sentences.

I got told in November by a lad in a local watering hole who is a car mechanic,

"that us sparks like to con people into thinking electricity is somehow dangerous or is complicated, how can it be when you can do a 5 week course and earn 50k a year, wish I had the money to do a course"

And this lad was not trying to be funny or derogatory about it, just that is how the industry is now perceived by people.

Once we were the most technical trade to be in, now we are literally banded in with painter and decorators.

 

[UNG]

I got told in November by a lad in a local watering hole who is a car mechanic,

"that us sparks like to con people into thinking electricity is somehow dangerous or is complicated, how can it be when you can do a 5 week course and earn 50k a year, wish I had the money to do a course"

And car mechanics don't con people with the sharp suck of air through the teeth and your car is poorly sick comment

And this lad was not trying to be funny or derogatory about it, just that is how the industry is now perceived by people.

Once we were the most technical trade to be in, now we are literally banded in with painter and decorators.

The demise of this industry is what annoys and upsets me it has been destroyed by both legislation and the lack of legislation, the other day someone on this board wanted the term "Engineer" protected lets come down the order a bit and protect the term "Electrician" the ability to get 5 weeks knowledge and become an Electrician is what makes this industry a laughing stock

It is quite surprising that with limited training and little or no experience you can become Part P registered

Part taking the P has done nothing to promote safety and quality workmanship in fact in some cases quite the opposite. The only revision needed is scrap it and find a credible alternative

Is this why it isn't promoted by the scam providers and the government

Long gone are the days when a spark was a spark and could work throughout the industry on single and three phase, while the industry has diversified with specialised areas with the new technologies that are appearing some of the bread and butter skills are considered specialist areas by some and C&G and others are quick to produce a course not least the 2391 if you can't inspect and test an installation then can you be a spark or are you just a wireman

I know my posts (rants) are off topic but this belief of some that the more experienced on here have a duty to remotely train them and should be a source of free experience with no negativity is a bit misguided in my view

 

[trev]

As has been pointed out, we too have paid out vast sums of money to try to do things right. Tell me, is it right that someone who has served an apprenticeship, undergone numerous post qualification courses to further his/her knowledge and knows domestic electrics like the back of his hand then has to pay £400+ to a scam provider in order to be deemed competent?
We have all done small jobs and not been asked for any paperwork. It is our duty in this situation to educate our clients a little so that in future they know what to expect.
It is not in our remit to get our profession viewed in the same way as gas installers, only sensible well thought out legislation by a government that actually gives a damn will achieve this. All we can do is hopefully put pressure on the powers that be to come up with this but as long as wholesalers and sheds exist selling willy nilly to anyone with the purchase price, so will "Tommy at the pub who does a bit electrics". While I appreciate that there are many good operators out there who have come through the short course route it should be pointed out that if there were legislation in place to protect the public from the cowboy then many if not most of these good operators would be out of business as would the scam providers. Now can you see them allowing that?

 

[Marvo]

Please post your concerns about qualifications in a more appropriate thread and get this one back on track.

Thanks.

 

[Mfctitch]

point taken.
I just sign off by saying I understand timed served sparks frustrations while at the same time being greatful for any advice that comes my way.