shop wiring in france

[antengland]

Hi Guys, i am an english electrical contractor, and have been asked to quote for some works in a shop in Paris.
Any body had any experience on non domestic wiring?
who do i get to certify the works?
will it need certifying if i don't install new circuits?

any help / info would be appreciated.

Ant.

 

[Top Cat]

If you would like to PM with some basic details of what you have been asked to do, then I will try to help you.

However you should be aware that to legally work here in France, you need to be registered here, so you have a SIRET No and have both Responcibility Civile (3rd party liab) and Decannal Ins (10 year guarantee ins). The second one as far as I am aware is not available in the UK.

Look forward to hearing from you

Victor

Hi Victor, as a frequent visitour and having a french brother in law you must be some sort of God to be working in France!
To anyone thinking you can just "do a bit of electrics" in France i would say don't bother, we have in this country a belief that what we do is the best so if we work in another country it will be good enough.
France is a bureaucratic nightmare and if you are English doing the French out of work you will be "shopped".

 

[Victor]

Victor, nice to see someone writing something that makes sense!!
Last week, I actually went out to Paris, initially to look at the work involved, then at the last minute was told I need to be starting the work. It is within a department store, and the main contractor is installing the feed to our small unit (16A only!!). We have been told to contact a consultant who will arrange an initial inspection report for us before the power can be turned on.
we have also been asked to carry out some work in another department store, where we believe we will not be allowed to work, so I am looking for a French registered contractor to carry out the work, with myself over seeing. Would you be interested?
The work involves swapping some recessed lights in a ceiling, adding a few and installing a socket .
The work is in Paris and will need to be done at night.

Thanks Antengland. Although Paris is 'do-able' being about 2.5 hours away, I am fortunate enough at the moment to have a full diary so I wouldn't be able to even look at the job for some time. However if you need any advice just ask and I will try to help you out.

Kind regards
Victor

 

[Victor]

Hi Victor, as a frequent visitour and having a french brother in law you must be some sort of God to be working in France!
To anyone thinking you can just "do a bit of electrics" in France i would say don't bother, we have in this country a belief that what we do is the best so if we work in another country it will be good enough.
France is a bureaucratic nightmare and if you are English doing the French out of work you will be "shopped".

There are good things about English electrical systems and there are good things about French one's as well, but to say that the English one is the best and that if you work in another country then it will be 'good enough' I would have to disagree with but there are many English electricans how think just that.

I have seen many a case here in France where an English electrician has come over here to work and has done exactly as they would have done at home, including the use of english materials such as t and e cable and single pole mcb's both of which are illegal.

I myself am fully conversant with the French regs, am registered and insured so even if I were to be 'shopped'. I am legal in my business. However there may be others out there who are trading but are not.

 

[antengland]

Thanks Victor. Any idea where I would be best to look for someone? I had a link to the French equivilant of the yellow pages, but can't find it.
funny you should say about twin and earth cable. (reply to top cat)I was given a list of cable to choose from, one of which turned out to be standard 318 flex! ( H05 VV-F)!

 

[Top Cat]

There are good things about English electrical systems and there are good things about French one's as well, but to say that the English one is the best and that if you work in another country then it will be 'good enough' I would have to disagree with but there are many English electricans how think just that.

I have seen many a case here in France where an English electrician has come over here to work and has done exactly as they would have done at home, including the use of english materials such as t and e cable and single pole mcb's both of which are illegal.

I myself am fully conversant with the French regs, am registered and insured so even if I were to be 'shopped'. I am legal in my business. However there may be others out there who are trading but are not.

Hi Victor i think you misunderstood my post (and i probably was not very clear) what i meant to say is that some people have a belief that we are the best electricians in the world so it would be good enough for any country. As you know this is bo**ocks! You need to know the reg's and working practices of another country.
I knew from previous posts that you were a fully registered spark in France so my post about being "shopped" was for the arrogant few that think they can just go over and "do a bit of electrics".

 

[antengland]

Victor and topcat,
i agree with you both. Just doing a bit would always be wrong no matter where you were. I am looking to employ someone local and oversee the work to ensure the client is satisfied. With the client looking at work all over Europe , I would be mad to turn down such an oppertunity .

 

[antengland]

Victor, just out of curiosity, what tests do you have to carry out on circuits?
same as ours? R1/R2, insulation and loop?

 

[Victor]

I usually carry out tests as I would in the UK although nothing has to be recorded. However when I went to work for a French electrician about 4 years ago, he asked what I was doing and what my testers were and then told me that all I was to test was voltage and if there was 230 volts running through the circuit it was ok....... I have yet to see a French electrician use anything other than a multimeter.

 

[antengland]

Shocked!! (pardon the pun)

 

[Engineer54]

Shocked!! (pardon the pun)

This may well be the case as far as domestic installations go, i don't really know. But it certainly isn't the case on commercial project work or on the industrial side of things...

One of the biggest and respected electrical test equipment manufacturers is French ''CHAUVIN ARNOUX GROUP'' Every French project electrical contracting company that i have worked with, had a full test equipment compliment... And more importantly, knew how to use it all!! ...lol!!!

 

[Victor]

Antengland, have you managed to find anyone yet?

 

[WilcoxElec]

Victor may never have seen a French electrician use anything other than a mutimeter, but the tests required to put a new installation in service properly in France correspond to what you need to do in the UK -.. Given that the schema is usually TT - the testing procedures are similar.

 

[Victor]

Victor may never have seen a French electrician use anything other than a mutimeter, but the tests required to put a new installation in service properly in France correspond to what you need to do in the UK -.. Given that the schema is usually TT - the testing procedures are similar.

That does not mean to say that they have the right equipment, I have seen consuel forms completed with the earth reading left out as they have not got a tester to test it, and the consuel inspector fills it in when he tests the system.

Having been here for 10 years now, I have yet to see an installation that is not a TT system.

 

[WilcoxElec]

I fill it in using an earth resistance meter - I never get the same answer as the Consuel - we always disagree by a few ohms.... I think his measure asumes I have poured alot of water around the peg just to make sure........ so long as the measure he gets is lower than 100 .....



I have know that TN was the schema at the top of some large installations I have seen - in collective buildings - where there is a dedicated transformer. For practical reasons however, for the electrical installations - lights and sockets - in the separate buildings - this is ignored and everything is treated as TT and earthed again locally - there will be a separate Disjoncteur de Branchement .... .... fun isn't it !