Should I change for a thicker wires?

[Shadyabs]

Hello,

I have a generator that generates 14V/20A DC for two ends and I use both of them for operating olive harvesting machine.

I have no Idea how much wattage or Amp each one needs because it came off the label , but I know that they both need 12Volts each.

The issue : operating both on the generator makes it struggle a bit..(slows them a bit). In general I have noticed that each of the appliances came with different wire thickness, I am considering changing the one with the thinner cable to a thicker one so both runs smoothly on the generator (goal - maximizing use of generator electricity )

A bit details:
Cable length for each one is about 10 meters long
Generator gasoline one.
Olive harvest machines Detail (assumptions based on common ones) :
16-20 Amps
12Volts
150-300 watts.


Would changing the wire make big difference?

The machines are from different brand, maybe one has smaller motor than the other (I really can't find that information)

My whole purpose here is some what to eliminate the speed loss for both harvesters when operated together , somewhat eliminate the voltage fluctuations from the generator.

Anyone helps thanks I appreciate it very much ?

 

[telectrix]

i would suspect that running both together is overloading the generator. what is the rated output (in watts or amps) of the generator?

 

[Shadyabs]

i would suspect that running both together is overloading the generator. what is the rated output (in watts or amps) of the generator?

Hello thanks for you help, I have no appropriate tools to measure it.
But as I stated, it give 20Amps for each connection as written on the connections.
I think too it shouldn't be a problem but still it slows a bit and I think I can help make it more efficient?

 

[davesparks]

If the generator is slowing down then, for whatever reason, the engine cannot keep up with the electrical demand.

This could be because the generator does not have the output power to run both machines, or the engine could be due a good service or something else I haven't thought of.

The fact it has two sockets rated at 20A on it doesn't necessarily mean it can deliver 40A, or deliver it continuously.

 

[Shadyabs]

If the generator is slowing down then, for whatever reason, the engine cannot keep up with the electrical demand.

This could be because the generator does not have the output power to run both machines, or the engine could be due a good service or something else I haven't thought of.

The fact it has two sockets rated at 20A on it doesn't necessarily mean it can deliver 40A, or deliver it continuously.

The generator was serviced not long ago.
so should i thicken the wires to help it consume more electricity? To the machines?

 

[davesparks]

The generator was serviced not long ago.
so should i thicken the wires to help it consume more electricity? To the machines?

I don't think that will help, it sounds like the generator is just not capable of producing enough power to run both machines.

 

[Spoon]

so should i thicken the wires to help it consume more electricity? To the machines?

As above mate. The thickness of a cable does not determine how much it draws. The ratings on cables are how much current the cable can draw safely. A 0.5mm cable will still draw 20A but it will not do it safely. It will overheat until it malfunctions.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - as above, if you increase the size of the cables it likely won’t make the generator run smoothly. If the generator and machines run ok but only one at a time then it’s likely the generator is (for whatever reason) not up to the task. This might be confirmed with some simple tests if you have a suitable voltmeter (?)

 

[Shadyabs]

Hi - as above, if you increase the size of the cables it likely won’t make the generator run smoothly. If the generator and machines run ok but only one at a time then it’s likely the generator is (for whatever reason) not up to the task. This might be confirmed with some simple tests if you have a suitable voltmeter (?)

Thanks All for the responses.
Today I checked the voltage it run between - 11-14.5 Volt.. (of course because it's a gasoline it won't be steady stream) wasn't able to check amps because my multimeter limit up to 10 apms

I thought for a second that increasing the thickness - lessen the resistance and as a result will give the machine the whole 20A that the generator provides?

 

[rapparee]

The appliance will come with the correct cable fitted.

If you run each appliance individually everything is fine.

When you run both appliances at once, the generator struggles.

I'm afraid you are going to have to buy a separate generator to run the second machine

 

[davesparks]

Thanks All for the responses.
Today I checked the voltage it run between - 11-14.5 Volt.. (of course because it's a gasoline it won't be steady stream) wasn't able to check amps because my multimeter limit up to 10 apms

I thought for a second that increasing the thickness - lessen the resistance and as a result will give the machine the whole 20A that the generator provides?

If the cable is too small then the most noticeable effect will be that the cable gets hot whilst in use, also you may see the machine running slow, but it won't normally make the generator slow down.


You can try bigger cables, but if the generator cannot provide enough current it will make no difference.

 

[Wilko]

I checked the voltage it run between - 11-14.5 Volt.

Hi - so it sounds like 14.5V is when the generator has no load (please confirm) and 11V is when both machines are loading it?
Can you tell us what is the make and model number of the generator?

 

[Shadyabs]

Hi - so it sounds like 14.5V is when the generator has no load (please confirm) and 11V is when both machines are loading it?
Can you tell us what is the make and model number of the generator?

All I know : is a Chinese made generator /japan.

Properties
Output: Single phase 230v
Frequency: 50 Hz
Continuous power supply 230v: 850w
Maximum electrical power 230v: 900w
12v socket for charging batteries: included
Weight: 26 lbs
Noise from 7 meters: 75 decibels
The engine
Engine volume: 80 cc
Engine Speed: 3600 rpm
Engine Model: A154F
Cooling: Air cooling
Fuel tank volume: 5.5 liters

* I really don't care about the spinning of the generator.. All I want is both harvesters to Not slow - and they do.

If each one is about 300 watts, it should run really fine but that's not the case, I Am not saying it slows to a level that you can't work with, I am saying that working with only one connected is way easier and faster (spins in the right amount- not too fast not slow) but when connecting the other one.. It really slows down to a point I guess its slower than it should run normally
Increasing the generator running speed is not effective to my guessing because it makes a lot of noise and consumes more gasoline?

 

[marconi]

If you send me the make and model number I will look at its specification.

Without looking, I assume the maximum dc power available is between 12 x 12 = 150W and 12 x 20 = 240W which is considerably less than that available from the 230V ac output sockets - 850W

What I would do is power the olive machines from the 230V ac outputs which would provide circa 425W to each olive machine. Also, lower volt drop along the long runs between the machines and generator.

You could buy for each olive machine a power supply which converts 230 V ac to 12V dc at 20A continuous (60A surge) (240W). Or - maybe cheaper to do - buy a 12V 20A battery charger and connect it to a 12V lead acid battery; then connect the olive machine across the battery. The nice thing about using the charger and lead acid battery is it provides a more stable 12V output using cheaper components and increased surge current for when the olive machine starts or has to work harder. All the gennie is doing is charging the battery.

You could have the one battery charger and battery for each machine, or one 12V 40 A battery charger connected to one 12V battery (and if possible a bigger Amp-Hour capacity). The problem with this scheme is thick enough and short as possible cables to carry the 40A between charger and battery and 20A to the machines. If the average load is greater than 240W then the battery would be discharging.

If you can afford it the best scheme is a battery charger-battery (eg car battery 100Ah) for each olive machine and located close to it.

Please let me know with some pictures what you end up doing. Keep the charger and battery out of the sunshine and heat.

SAFETY - even though the 12 Volt side is safe to touch, there is the possibility of very large short circuit currents to flow which can cause dangerous arcs, plasma and very, vert rapid heating to red hot in wires. You must put a fuse or circuit breaker in the positive(red) cable to the battery plus terminal and cover the terminals so that exposed metal cannot be accidentally shorted together. A suitable size fuse or circuit rated would have a rating of 100 to 150 Amps and rated for low voltage. If you are stuck for where to buy them I will pass you details of companies in the UK.

If the olive machines are not run at 100% capacity all of the time then you could try first of all taking the 12V dc gennie output to a 12V battery ( suggest 2 x 100Ah in parallel) and connecting the machines across the battery. This scheme would work if the total average load of the olive machines is 240W because this what the gennie can provide. if the average load is greater than 240W then the battery will be discharging to make up the difference.

 

[Shadyabs]

If you send me the make and model number I will look at its specification.

Without looking, I assume the maximum dc power available is between 12 x 12 = 150W and 12 x 20 = 240W which is considerably less than that available from the 230V ac output sockets - 850W

What I would do is power the olive machines from the 230V ac outputs which would provide circa 425W to each olive machine. Also, lower volt drop along the long runs between the machines and generator.

You could buy for each olive machine a power supply which converts 230 V ac to 12V dc at 20A continuous (60A surge) (240W). Or - maybe cheaper to do - buy a 12V 20A battery charger and connect it to a 12V lead acid battery; then connect the olive machine across the battery. The nice thing about using the charger and lead acid battery is it provides a more stable 12V output using cheaper components and increased surge current for when the olive machine starts or has to work harder. All the gennie is doing is charging the battery.

You could have the one battery charger and battery for each machine, or one 12V 40 A battery charger connected to one 12V battery (and if possible a bigger Amp-Hour capacity). The problem with this scheme is thick enough and short as possible cables to carry the 40A between charger and battery and 20A to the machines. If the average load is greater than 240W then the battery would be discharging.

If you can afford it the best scheme is a battery charger-battery (eg car battery 100Ah) for each olive machine and located close to it.

Please let me know with some pictures what you end up doing. Keep the charger and battery out of the sunshine and heat.

SAFETY - even though the 12 Volt side is safe to touch, there is the possibility of very large short circuit currents to flow which can cause dangerous arcs, plasma and very, vert rapid heating to red hot in wires. You must put a fuse or circuit breaker in the positive(red) cable to the battery plus terminal and cover the terminals so that exposed metal cannot be accidentally shorted together. A suitable size fuse or circuit rated would have a rating of 100 to 150 Amps and rated for low voltage. If you are stuck for where to buy them I will pass you details of companies in the UK.

If the olive machines are not run at 100% capacity all of the time then you could try first of all taking the 12V dc gennie output to a 12V battery ( suggest 2 x 100Ah in parallel) and connecting the machines across the battery. This scheme would work if the total average load of the olive machines is 240W because this what the gennie can provide. if the average load is greater than 240W then the battery will be discharging to make up the difference.

Hello Dear,
Thanks for your help, I didn't understand the charger - battery thing I am sorry... ( but I understood the the battery should be connected with the generator.. And then the battery will give constant current to each machine)

You say that I should connect both machines to the AC output? And they should run better on the generator? Without slowing the spin? *note that there is only one AC outlet.
I attached generator image.