Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it?

[Baddegg]

See comments above in red

I get that but to the average voter that’s just words with no clear explanation, people aren’t as daft as politicians would like or like to believe.....all that is is a --- for tat argument with no real reference as to how Scotland would achieve this.....estimated is a fancy word for guessing....to my mind this is where they fail, all politicians I mean, people are onto the media and lip service and no longer believe things because a pepper or person of perceived authority say them, so please an example of how?

 

[baldelectrician]

I get that but to the average voter that’s just words with no clear explanation, people aren’t as daft as politicians would like or like to believe.....all that is is a --- for tat argument with no real reference as to how Scotland would achieve this.....estimated is a fancy word for guessing....to my mind this is where they fail, all politicians I mean, people are onto the media and lip service and no longer believe things because a pepper or person of perceived authority say them, so please an example of how?

I agree that estimates are poor but almost ALL the figures come from UK departments, maybe I am cynical but if the actual figures showed Scotland was a basket case they would be all over the media.

The following chart is from before oil etc, the UK stop gathering actual accurate data on Scottish income etc about then (it is not linked to the fact that the SNP were formed about this time).

 

[Baddegg]

I agree that estimates are poor but almost ALL the figures come from UK departments, maybe I am cynical but if the actual figures showed Scotland was a basket case they would be all over the media.

The following chart is from before oil etc, the UK stop gathering actual accurate data on Scottish income etc about then (it is not linked to the fact that the SNP were formed about this time).

So to anyone born from 1975 onwards you’d show them that and say we are better off going it alone?....at a time when the world are at least discussing phasing out fossil fuels particularly in the motor industry?....I don’t think you’re MAYBE a bit cynical mate shall we just take that as a given ?
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How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
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I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?

 

[baldelectrician]

So to anyone born from 1975 onwards you’d show them that and say we are better off going it alone?....at a time when the world are at least discussing phasing out fossil fuels particularly in the motor industry?....I don’t think you’re MAYBE a bit cynical mate shall we just take that as a given ?
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How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
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I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?

The stats are till 1920, after then they were not done and then 'estimated'

I will give one example.
HS2, Crossrail, Thames gateway etc- all this is accounted as UK infrastructure spending and 10% is 'estimated' to Scotland. The reality is that other than UK power network connectors (to bring green energy to the rest of the UK) there is almost NO UK infrastructure spend in Scotland from Werstminster

How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
Don't call me Shirley ....
This happens at present - there are different tax rates in Scotland now, the same thing happens in Northern Ireland / Republic of Ireland and it all works.

I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?
I would tell them ' Welcome to Scotland'

Talking about fossil fuels - Scotland has over 30% of EUROPE'S renewable potential, this can be sold across the sea to mainland EU giving a steady income stream (I am talking about wave as well which is constant).
This is the future

 

[Midwest]

My feelings are people’s should be free to do what they think fit within the law, and for the good of all. Majority should have the say so. You should run with what the majority have decide, for a suitable period of time, like an elected government. Things like Brexit would have a different period of reflection, not withstanding the EU would have us back in the next decade for example. But say perhaps ‘we’ decided, to rejoin in say 20 or 30 years time, then we could should debate that.

Same for Scottish Independence, a vote was held and the majority made that decision. You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering. You can’t just want a revote because it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I was a remainer, but have accepted the vote to leave, it would be ridiculous to say let’s have another referendum then another referendum then another. Some point, a decision has to be made.

I’m see myself as British not English. I would be concerned for all, if we saw Scotland leave the Union, as I would any other of the Home countries. I’m not sure how England would survive on its own, and how the demise of the UK would affect the other Home countries.

I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.

 

[baldelectrician]

My feelings are people’s should be free to do what they think fit within the law, and for the good of all. Majority should have the say so. You should run with what the majority have decide, for a suitable period of time, like an elected government. Things like Brexit would have a different period of reflection, not withstanding the EU would have us back in the next decade for example. But say perhaps ‘we’ decided, to rejoin in say 20 or 30 years time, then we could should debate that.

Same for Scottish Independence, a vote was held and the majority made that decision. You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering. You can’t just want a revote because it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I was a remainer, but have accepted the vote to leave, it would be ridiculous to say let’s have another referendum then another referendum then another. Some point, a decision has to be made.

I’m see myself as British not English. I would be concerned for all, if we saw Scotland leave the Union, as I would any other of the Home countries. I’m not sure how England would survive on its own, and how the demise of the UK would affect the other Home countries.

I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.

You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering
Yes- I agree, the UK government have defined a 'generation' as 7 years- this is in the Good Friday Agreement, so I don't mind waiting till September 2021 for the next vote


I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.
68% of Scots who voted in the EU referendum voted to stay in the EU
Scotland voted to stay in and are being forced out, Northern Ireland also voted in (by a smaller margin) and are remaining in the single market, the customs union PLUS being allowed a vote on their future in the EU when the want - through the Northern Ireland assembly
I am happy Northern Ireland have these rights - not that Scotland is effectively told to sit down, shut up and know your place.

To deny a vote is to deny democracy
The answer to how many referendums Scotland should have is simple- as many as the Scottish Parliament vote for.

I see myself as Scottish first and European second, never British.
I cannot wait till I have a Scottish passport - once independence comes I will be replacing my passport even though it has a few years to run.

Scotland will be in an advantageous position post independence, there WILL be a fair (to both sides) deal with the rest of the UK.
If there is no trade deal the lights go out down south, so despite the bluff and bluster of politicians common sense will prevail.

 

[DPG]

You seem proud to say that you would never consider yourself British? How sad. I think you need to get over all this before it takes over.

 

[baldelectrician]

The UK act of leaving the EU is a major act of self harm to the UK, now if the rest of the UK want to jump off the economic cliff then fine- Scotland has a life raft.

The UK government could compromise- the EU have given special dispensation for Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union and single market, Scotland has asked the UK government to request the EU on Scotland's behalf - the UK have refused

As things stand the Scottish Government can not approach the EU as they are not a member state. Once independent we will be a member with a veto and a say at the table.
Remember Malta has more influence over Scottish laws and affairs in some areas than the Scottish Government has.

 

[DPG]

I'm not getting drawn in again. It's like a car crash though, you can't stop looking!

 

[baldelectrician]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

 

[Baddegg]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

 

[baldelectrician]

The Scottish Government talk the talk and act where Boris and the rest of the Tories don't care
The financial bail out of the CV19 (so far) has cost only 5% of what it cost to bail out the bankers

Meanwhile the Scottish Government extend free school meals through the summer
Remember all P1-P3 (age 5-8) kids in Scotland already get free school meals (no turkey twizzlers here), will attach my kids school menu.

Free school meals extended through summer in Scotland

Copy of menu (when school is open)

https://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/Resources/PDF/School-meals/School-Meals-Menu.pdf

 

[DPG]

Jeez it's like one long party political broadcast on a loop. Same thing over and over again.

 

[baldelectrician]

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

I see the UK going down a bad part and they (the Tories et all) don't seem to care or want to know
All other governments / assemblies in the EU have expressed their wish to have an extension due to Covit, the Tories have just ignored it.

Fortunately in Scotland we have the option to leave-
Putting my cards on the table - if the UK offered Scotland full fiscal autonomy and any war acts had to have the approval of a majority of the UK governments I would be content to stay.

Remember Gordon Brown (with the oversight of David Cameron) offered Scots 'as near federalism as you can get' which turned out to be full control of road signs, 25% of income tax and 15% of welfare

 

[Baddegg]

Gordon brown was/is and always will be a liar, he’s a politician........of course the eu wants an extension we would then be liable for a massive share of the covid bailout......we voted that’s it I appreciate that’s a concept some people struggle with but that’s it...