Shower Switch - Required or Not

[NickD]

I'm putting in an electric shower (7kW), which will be protected (and clearly labelled as being for that purpose) by a 30mA 2-pole RCD + 32A MCB (garage/shower type connection unit - no main switch in it, just the RCD & MCB) going outside the bathroom in the airing cupboard at an easily accessible height.

Can anyone think of a reason why in addition to the RCD a dedicated shower switch (pull cord or 'cooker type' or whatever) is *required* by the regs? I've been having a read and can't immediately see anything. Section 701 (bath/shower location) doesn't seem to help. Section 537 (isolation/switching) is relaxed about an RCD being used for isolation (table 53.4)...can be secured in open position...contact positions are indicated...inadvertant closure prevented (unit has a cover)....537.3.2.2 says "shall require manual operation". Hmmm. Does it mean it must *only* be manually operated? Obviously the RCD provides ADS however it only automatically disconnects, never reconnects...

Thoughts? Cheers guys.

 

[NickD]

which was?

What good justification is there, either in terms of good practice or regs, for a DP isolator switch (pullcord, cooker style, etc.) if the shower is already supplied by a dedicated DP RCD.

 

[telectrix]

What good justification is there, either in terms of good practice or regs, for a DP isolator switch (pullcord, cooker style, etc.) if the shower is already supplied by a dedicated DP RCD.

switch is needed to turn the fan connected into the shower on and off.

 

[pepparz]

i'm finding this difficult to understand, why u would be asking if a pull switch is required when you've obviously got good electrical knowledge. its is if ur testing other peoples knowledge of electrical installations on the forum? might be just me that sees it that way but hey..

 

[itselectric]

I went to a seminar lots of years ago (when electricity was being generated by hamsters) which was organised by the IEE. There were sparks there from NORWEB. who were arguing the same point, and although the chap recommended a switch was there for isolation, the NORWEB guys said the regs were just guidance and a switch was not necessary as long as there was a dedicated isolation point beside the meter.
But as we have seen on another thread recently, showers can catch fire so in the interest of safety n in my opinion, local isolation is advisable. I wouldn't want to be running about the house looking for a switch.

 

[Darkwood]

Showers are designed to house 230v within a water heavy environment now if installed and fitted correctly they should give good IP rating and service but like any accessory they are prone to life wears and tears and ageing of seals etc ... The manufacturer will often recommend a Local DP isolation point so the public are able to isolate the shower easily and quickly if water ingress should see it crackling or smoking... it is clear many householders are not familiar about the workings or even sometimes where the fuseboard is and these contribute to the recommendations of a local pullcord or switch.

You pop down to your local elderly residential area and ask them how to switch of power to the shower and they will more often than not express the shower pullcord or switch..... ask them how to isolate it at the DB and you get a whole different kind of response, in light of the above and its proximity to jets of water it is recommending that the public user has a clear understandable means of isolation and it doesn't get much clearer than a circuit design recognised by all.

 

[Darkwood]

Ps .. my views are my own here and not regulation backed but believe this argument is its own victim of changing regulations ... before rcd DP options were common place the local means of isolation for the shower was pull switch / switch, the and the method was recognised by all; public and installer but as i said before changing trends in protection has left a alternative which i believe is often argued 'correctly' as compliant but it doesn't address the advantages of a local isolation point for a shower.

 

[Geordie Spark]

i'm finding this difficult to understand, why u would be asking if a pull switch is required when you've obviously got good electrical knowledge. its is if ur testing other peoples knowledge of electrical installations on the forum? might be just me that sees it that way but hey..

He's one of Dan's mates who Dan has dropped a fiver to.

The more posts there are the more moolah Dan can stuff in his sky rocket (apparently)

You'll probably find 75% of the "Idiot Posts" on here are started in the same way and by the same bloke / blokess.

 

[NickD]

Showers are designed to house 230v within a water heavy environment now if installed and fitted correctly they should give good IP rating and service but like any accessory they are prone to life wears and tears and ageing of seals etc ... The manufacturer will often recommend a Local DP isolation point so the public are able to isolate the shower easily and quickly if water ingress should see it crackling or smoking... it is clear many householders are not familiar about the workings or even sometimes where the fuseboard is and these contribute to the recommendations of a local pullcord or switch.

You pop down to your local elderly residential area and ask them how to switch of power to the shower and they will more often than not express the shower pullcord or switch..... ask them how to isolate it at the DB and you get a whole different kind of response, in light of the above and its proximity to jets of water it is recommending that the public user has a clear understandable means of isolation and it doesn't get much clearer than a circuit design recognised by all.

Good answer.

 

[pepparz]

Who's Dan?

 

[iamelectric]

He's one of Dan's mates who Dan has dropped a fiver to.

The more posts there are the more moolah Dan can stuff in his sky rocket (apparently)

You'll probably find 75% of the "Idiot Posts" on here are started in the same way and by the same bloke / blokess.

i wouldn't say this is an idiot post i can see where he is coming from , prob about 95% of faults on shower circuits are at the DP switch , so why not cut it out , but on the other hand darkwood has also made a good point. shower ratings are getting bigger and bigger what happens in the future when your cable unavoidably runs thru insulation and your cable calcs are coming up with 16mm going to be a bit of a struggle to fit that isolator then.

 

[Engineer54]

For me, i'd have installed the RCD device next to the installation main CU, where it should be, with a local isolation switch (be it a DP pull cord ceiling switch or wall mounted DP switch). Pointless hiding switches in airing cupboards and the like, to me local should mean local!

 

[pepparz]

Local switch for local people (tubs) lol

 

[wozz]

I don't think I have ever read a shower manuf instructions ask for a 'local' switch. Willing to be proved wrong but all the ones I have read certainly have not.

 

[shanky887614]

i wouldn't say this is an idiot post i can see where he is coming from , prob about 95% of faults on shower circuits are at the DP switch , so why not cut it out , but on the other hand darkwood has also made a good point. shower ratings are getting bigger and bigger what happens in the future when your cable unavoidably runs thru insulation and your cable calcs are coming up with 16mm going to be a bit of a struggle to fit that isolator then.

Nonsence.

You would just need a contacter as well

 

[Geordie Spark]

i wouldn't say this is an idiot post i can see where he is coming from , prob about 95% of faults on shower circuits are at the DP switch , so why not cut it out , but on the other hand darkwood has also made a good point. shower ratings are getting bigger and bigger what happens in the future when your cable unavoidably runs thru insulation and your cable calcs are coming up with 16mm going to be a bit of a struggle to fit that isolator then.

Aye ... and how would the extractor fan be wired into it - and the outside security light with its PIR and then there's the feed to the garden shed to consider as well....