Smart Meter Tripping RCD

[Ines Spires]

Thought I would throw my tenant's problem regards Smart Meters (SM) into the mix, in the hope someone could maybe suggest what is going on?

May 2016 - tenants switch to E.org - no problem.
March 2017 - had Liberty 100 PAYG SM (top-Up via App) installed and immediately the RCD/fusebox starts tripping intermittently - every few hours, every day, after few days - see picture.
April 2017 - I contacted E.org and they stated that SM not cause switches to trip, fault is fusebox. Accept what they say.

Tripping continues and tenants check and monitor if appliances causing problem. None found.
BG electricians check home electrics 4 times and state domestic side and RCD all ok - Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Sept 2018 and Oct 2018.

After much elimination find Cause???!!!
Customer Top Up - when tenant tops up via app and then a few minutes later credit shows up on phone, then RCD immediately trips.
Supplier reading - after informing E.org about above and they do On Demand reading from their end, then RCD immediately trips.

E.org change SM Oct 2018 and tripping now worse.
BG check after SM change and state domestic side and RCD all ok.
E.org state that fault is RCD as have changed SM and thus are insistent they are not at fault.
BG believe it is SM, so I am between a rock and hard place.
Requested E.org replace SM with Dumb Meters as a way of eliminating or confirming SM is cause of tripping, but will only do if I pay.

Now starting case with Energy Ombudsman… And tenants’ life not good as now 3/4 times a day have to reset RCD.
Any ideas/advice?

 

[snowhead]

Nice to see it cure the problem, and also that it is repeatable. Thanks for letting us know.

It must be a weight off your mind!

Untill the meter reader comes for the manual check and reports "suspicious activity " involving the Smart Meter, and pulls the foil off.

 

[DPG]

I'd personally put a little note in there explaining exactly why I'd put the foil there, and to let me know if they had a problem with it.

 

[Megawatt]

Thought I would throw my tenant's problem regards Smart Meters (SM) into the mix, in the hope someone could maybe suggest what is going on?

May 2016 - tenants switch to E.org - no problem.
March 2017 - had Liberty 100 PAYG SM (top-Up via App) installed and immediately the RCD/fusebox starts tripping intermittently - every few hours, every day, after few days - see picture.
April 2017 - I contacted E.org and they stated that SM not cause switches to trip, fault is fusebox. Accept what they say.

Tripping continues and tenants check and monitor if appliances causing problem. None found.
BG electricians check home electrics 4 times and state domestic side and RCD all ok - Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Sept 2018 and Oct 2018.

After much elimination find Cause???!!!
Customer Top Up - when tenant tops up via app and then a few minutes later credit shows up on phone, then RCD immediately trips.
Supplier reading - after informing E.org about above and they do On Demand reading from their end, then RCD immediately trips.

E.org change SM Oct 2018 and tripping now worse.
BG check after SM change and state domestic side and RCD all ok.
E.org state that fault is RCD as have changed SM and thus are insistent they are not at fault.
BG believe it is SM, so I am between a rock and hard place.
Requested E.org replace SM with Dumb Meters as a way of eliminating or confirming SM is cause of tripping, but will only do if I pay.

Now starting case with Energy Ombudsman… And tenants’ life not good as now 3/4 times a day have to reset RCD.
Any ideas/advice?

View attachment 45280

Ines I’m no expert but how could the meter possibly trip that RCD since it’s feeding the premises and ahead of all your overcurrent and short circuit protection. It also seems unlikely that the wireless reading could trip a breaker. I wished I had an answer

 

[snowhead]

I think it was discussed earlier in the thread but possibly the RCD trip circuit (30ma) is being unbalanced by the radio signal and tripping.

It's probably unique to the design of this older RCD.

 

[Ines Spires]

@snowhead Top-up via App works and credit is shown on in-house display unit. So SM is working as 'Smart'. No need for a manual check. Foil has just stopped any EMI or RFI 'disturbance crossing over into CU'. Signals from and to SM still go out into the 'ether'.

@DPG I will put a note or quickly remove foil when meter reader comes, hehe. And yes, it is a massive load off my mind. Now my tenants have got their quality of life back, not having to FOUR PLUS times EVERY day and night to reset the RCDs. Now with the ongoing complaint.

As an aside, to highlight the incompetency of the SM fitters and their company.
Same SM fitter from Providor installed a Gas SM. I have recently found out that this was unsafe and illegal as it did not meet Regulation Standards, current and when Gas SM fitted.

Current Regs state that whenever a Gas Meter is exchanged, either with a SM or Dumb Meter, if two anaconda flexi stainless steel pipes are connected to the Meter, one has to be replaced by the Meter fitter during installation with a fixed copper pipe to bring it up to the latest Reg Standards. I have had done myself.
Providor did NOT do this, but just took out the old Dumb Meter and installed the SM and connected it to the two existing anacondas. I wonder in how many other homes they have done this illegal work? Now, I will start this as a separate complaint with E.org!

 

[Strima]

Ines I’m no expert but how could the meter possibly trip that RCD since it’s feeding the premises and ahead of all your overcurrent and short circuit protection. It also seems unlikely that the wireless reading could trip a breaker. I wished I had an answer

UK smart meters contain a SIM card that connect to the local mobile phone network. In areas of poor reception the device increases antenna power and output to try and get a better signal. This is in the form of non-ionising radiation and has an adverse effect on electronics and biologicals. The aluminium foil blocks the signal, note I spelt ALUMINIUM correctly...

The increased power of the phone signal caused the RCD electronics to detect a fault and operate the device.

@Ines Spires I would again hassle them and request an external antenna is fitted to the SM, they are readily available and easy to install, this should stop the nuisance tripping.

And I'm now in smug mode.

 

[littlespark]

has an adverse effect on electronics and biologicals.

What do you mean by "biologicals"? Is it bad for human health??

And to continue the Red Dwarf theme

 

[Strima]

What do you mean by "biologicals"? Is it bad for human health??

And to continue the Red Dwarf theme

View attachment 54162

Plant and animal. Not plumbers though as they have their own genome...

 

[alasdairp]

Plant and animal. Not plumbers though as they have their own genome...

The International Angency for Research on Cancer (IARC), part of W.H.O, categorised all RF / microwave energy close to the body as a Group 2B "possible human carcinogen" in 2011 and that is likely to be upgraded to a 2A "probable human carcinogen" in the next couple of years as the scientific and medical evidence has become stronger. It can also cause headaches and outher neurological adverse symptoms in some people.

As to the RFI/EMC interference issue, electrical and electronic equipment only has to be immune to a signal strength of 3 volts per metre under the EMC Regulations. Close to a mobile phone or a Smart meter, the levels are often over 20 volts per metre. So the Smart Meter should not have been installed so close to the Consumer Unit. But does OFGEM or anyone else give guidance on this - of course not.