spanish electrics

[Farmelectrics]

got a freind who has just bought a gaff in spain he wants me to do a few a bits and bobs when we go over to see him got me thinking when ive been on holiday walking around looking at buildings or hotels getting built sad i no but notice all circuts are singles in flexi hose but my question is do they do any electrical testing on these circuts or hotels like we do here 2391 etc your thoughts please

 

[chronyx]

I'm in La Palma doing a bit of electrical work (Or will be)

The electrics are weird. Seems like all the conduit gets taken to central 'boxes' in the wall then out to various points so I guess I have to connector strip/join it there.

Double pole breakers and nothing but 10/16A breakers.

This will be fun...!

 

[Engineer54]

That sounds pretty much normal for many European countries. The central box as you call it is generally located above the door to the room(s) in question. Sockets, ceiling lights and switches are then routed from this room distribution box. Bit like a 70's octopus system, but with several central boxes rather than just one!! lol!!

 

[chronyx]

Do they just join the lot in connector strip? :S It's bizarre!

 

[RogertheBodger]

Do they just join the lot in connector strip? :S It's bizarre![/QUO

Yep! Buy lots of those.

 

[chronyx]

Mañana mañana....well, when in Rome...makes me cringe though! :/

Thank you

 

[mayfair]

If there are only 10A and 16A breakers its not correct under ITC-BT 25 of the regs if its a small install there should be Example 25 amp main switch 25A 30ma RCD. 25 A breaker Cooker circuit 6mm cable, 20A breaker 4mm cable (hot water heater) 16A 2.5mm cable breaker Sockets, 16A 2.5mm cable, Sockets, 10 A Lighting circuit 1.5mm cable. there should also be a breaker called an ICP the size of that will depend on the supply contracted. Why does it make you cringe ? better than a ring IMO. The work will need to be tested and a Bolitin issued. Zones apply in both bathrooms and the kitchen as do socket and switch heights. Dont get caught.

 

[Engineer54]

If there are only 10A and 16A breakers its not correct under ITC-BT 25 of the regs if its a small install there should be Example 25 amp main switch 25A 30ma RCD. 25 A breaker Cooker circuit 6mm cable, 20A breaker 4mm cable (hot water heater) 16A 2.5mm cable breaker Sockets, 16A 2.5mm cable, Sockets, 10 A Lighting circuit 1.5mm cable. there should also be a breaker called an ICP the size of that will depend on the supply contracted. Why does it make you cringe ? better than a ring IMO. The work will need to be tested and a Bolitin issued. Zones apply in both bathrooms and the kitchen as do socket and switch heights. Dont get caught.

Nope, i wouldn't go a far as that!! lol!!

The OP's installation might be quite old, and many older Spanish installations weren't up to much in those day's. From what i've seen for myself, the new installations are a far cry from what was once seen/allowed in day's gone by...

 

[Engineer54]

If there are only 10A and 16A breakers its not correct under ITC-BT 25 of the regs if its a small install there should be Example 25 amp main switch 25A 30ma RCD. 25 A breaker Cooker circuit 6mm cable, 20A breaker 4mm cable (hot water heater) 16A 2.5mm cable breaker Sockets, 16A 2.5mm cable, Sockets, 10 A Lighting circuit 1.5mm cable. there should also be a breaker called an ICP the size of that will depend on the supply contracted. Why does it make you cringe ? better than a ring IMO. The work will need to be tested and a Bolitin issued. Zones apply in both bathrooms and the kitchen as do socket and switch heights. Dont get caught.

Is that the Single/3 phase MCCB after the supply meter, that incorporates a 500mA earth fault protection element??

 

[RogertheBodger]

Is that the Single/3 phase MCCB after the supply meter, that incorporates a 500mA earth fault protection element??

Hi Eng. The ICP is just a 1 or 3 pole MCB, no earth fault protection and it belongs to the Dno. It normally fits in its own enclosure, or an enclosure within a panel that can be lead sealed. Limits the supply into the property as Gary explained.

 

[Badged01]

It normally fits in its own enclosure, or an enclosure within a panel that can be lead sealed. Limits the supply into the property as Gary explained.

In the unfortunate instance of 'popping' it can you (the householder) reset it or is it a call-out of the electric company. I guess someone like ENDESA?

 

[RogertheBodger]

It can be reset by the customer, the idea of them is that if you contract with say, Endesa, for a 25A supply at the appropriate tariff, then they fit a 25A ICP Breaker, if you have to keep resetting because you need a bigger supply then you would need to go back to them, sign a contract for a bigger supply at a higher tariff, and they would come back - fit a larger ICP.

With the housing boom in Spain over the last few years, demand for supply has outstripped the ability of the supply infrastructure to keep up, so the Supply Authorities are desperate to keep supply size to a minimum, 25A supply into a 2 bedroom house is normal.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Do you get any Blackouts in Spain?
I saw the CEO (or whoever) of one of the British Power suppliers on 'Hard Talk' the other day, and he was saying that BOs are a serious possibility soon in the UK. The amount of slack in the system is at an all time low.
Previous Govt's not investing in new generation, so now we're tied into an expensive foreign solution! :censored::mad2:

 

[RogertheBodger]

Yeah do get quite a few Archy, don't know much about Spanish generating capabilities if I'm honest, I expect they are tied in to a European grid because they don't seem to suffer from a lack of capacity, more like the outages are caused by network breakdowns, especially when it rains and the manholes, where they make all the joints in the street, fill up with water. Everything is overloaded so a lot of failures because of this.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hahaha...this was a goody from earlier this year...
BBC News - Pavement explosion in Pimlico, central London

I remember the blackouts back in early 70s, they were great fun!
Can't imagine the havoc they'd cause these days with everyone symbiotically connected to internet.

 

[dubnut71]

There is a Spanish lad on my 17th Edition course and he explained the "octopus" system to me. When he was looking at the demo baords in the college and saw each circuit wired back to the CU without aforementioned boxes he just muttered something about it being much harder to find / fix faults! He's a good hand too, explained his training as a spark over there and its a different but yet comprehensive training, like my apprenticeship, just different.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Wow that's quite a bang! 70's blackouts, remember them, had to go on a 3 day week for a bit. They have individual blackouts here too. When the bill hasn't been paid they just come along and whip the meter away, no advance notice. been called out many times to that one.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Meter pulling is probably a good idea!
I make the mistake of leaving the bills to our lass. She racked up such a huge electric bill (DON'T ask!!!), they put a pre-payment meter in.
I quite like it actually. I now know how much electric we use, 2 adults 3 girls, everything switched on, comes in about a tenner/week.
Worked it out a while back on here, it's about an average of < 3 or 4A over 12 hours.
That's why them threads about do I need a 3 phase, 600A supply for a small block of flats amuse me!

 

[RogertheBodger]

It may seem like a good idea Archy, but the aggro you have to go through to get your meter back is tremendous - and it takes about a week!

 

[Engineer54]

Hi Eng. The ICP is just a 1 or 3 pole MCB, no earth fault protection and it belongs to the Dno. It normally fits in its own enclosure, or an enclosure within a panel that can be lead sealed. Limits the supply into the property as Gary explained.

Ok i'm with you. Just wondered if it was similar to other European countries that use the MCCB i described above. We also use them in Cyprus. They mostly come adjustable from 20A to 60A with a fixed 500mA RCD element.


Are most Spanish installations still on TT earthing, or increasing the PME supplies available?? Cyprus is around 90/95% TT and can't really see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Silly Sausage]

It may seem like a good idea Archy, but the aggro you have to go through to get your meter back is tremendous - and it takes about a week!

Hahahahaha...I don't need to worry about that for a while.
The debt is being paid off at £10 a week.
Everyone will have their own miniature Fusion reactor by then!

 

[RogertheBodger]

Ok i'm with you. Just wondered if it was similar to other European countries that use the MCCB i described above. We also use them in Cyprus. They mostly come adjustable from 20A to 60A with a fixed 500mA RCD element.


Are most Spanish installations still on TT earthing, or increasing the PME supplies available?? Cyprus is around 90/95% TT and can't really see that changing anytime soon.

All TT around the Costa del Sol, If there is any PME I haven't come across it, may be some in the bigger Spanish Cities, I don't think the Spanish are too worried about earthing, last time I went into CEF in Marbella to buy some screw together earth rods they had never heard of them, so I asked for a 2mtr rod.
He said we've only got a meter left.
What do you mean "left"
The Spanish sparks wont buy a full length so they have to cut them in half.......?

 

[mayfair]

Re earthing, up further north (costa blanca) we have a good few PME systems. TT here varies in one town we have to use a 1.5m 2 mile up the road its a 2.2m in some areas we use that stuff (name escapes me, due to being old) that you put round the pole My CEF stocks 3 sizes of spike . The ICP i mentioned is now becoming obsolite as the introduction of Smart meters is now in full swing, these have an auto-reset and cut the power for around 2 mins. When the meter is checked if you have had over a certain amount of overloads you will be asked to have your supply upgraded to do this requires a almost complete re-wire, i suppose they are trying to bring the older properties up to date. Very few power outages up here.

 

[Engineer54]

in some areas we use that stuff (name escapes me, due to being old) that you put round the pole

Do you mean ''Bentonite'' a conductive water retaining clay?? There is also ''Marconite'', which is a highly conductive mortar/cement....

So what is the maximum Ra value stipulated for a TT system in Spain these days?? I'm guessing something totally daft of around 100 ohms?? ...lol!!

 

[RogertheBodger]

Do you mean ''Bentonite'' a conductive water retaining clay?? There is also ''Marconite'', which is a highly conductive mortar/cement....

So what is the maximum Ra value stipulated for a TT system in Spain these days?? I'm guessing something totally daft of around 100 ohms?? ...lol!![



Really glad you asked that :censored:, I've had a look through the Reg's (good job it's raining today) and can't find any mention of a maximum Ra for TT systems. The only mention of a max. figure is in relation to RCD's, ie 1660 for 30mA etc.

Having said that, the last job I did that specified a max Ra the designer wanted <5 Ohms, and it was difficult, I even went to the extent of having the Air con installer run his plastic condensate pipes to the earth pits, every bit helps in summer, Managed 6.7 ohms, not really enough for ADS, it could have improved over time but the house was sold and I never got to go back.

 

[mayfair]

Marconite m8
Less than 10 is acceptable for a pass