SWA Depth? | Page 6 | on ElectriciansForums

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Sparky83

Hello all,

Hopefully just a quick question really, i need to quote to install some cable to go around the outside edge of a large rounded driveway, it will be sunk into the ground but at what depth?

Ive looked online but see different depths quote, some 450mm some 600mm and some completely different.

Just want to make sure be any work starts.

Thanks,

Sparky83
 
Without getting into the argument, the only places where a buried depth is specified in BS7671 is:
Section 705 - Agricultural - where 0.6m minimum and 1m minimum if burying in the fields
Section 708 - Campsites - where 0.6m is minimum
Section 709 - Marinas - buried at a sufficient depth to avoid damage - and 0.5m is suggested
 
It's a discussion, not an argument!!! So what's your point in posting these depths that you have found??

This is one of the many things i dislike about BS7671, the need to search all over the place to find things only to find snippets of what your actually looking for!! There is no reason why a table of buried cable depths should not be included in the Reg's, it would clear up the many grey areas that presently exist within the publication...
 
It is an argument...

No, it isn't.

Like I said before I think, too many grey areas, trouble is there are an infinite number of scenarios, you just can't have a reg for every situation. You'd probably need an artic to carry your copy of the regs around otherwise.

Maybe we a more intensive 17th edition course that involves a bit more than looking in the index and 60 multiple choice questions.

One reason why I think that the C&G2400 course (or whatever it is now) should have more prominence, it gives you (well it did me) a much a better knowledge of the regs.
 
E54 - We should all be working to BS7671 in this country so I'm showing you where there is specific requirements to burying cables, in the absence of specific depths you have to make you're own judgement. You've make your opinions clear and others have made theirs and are prepared to stand up in court and argue the point.

I'm prepared to leave it at that, if someone has made a specific call who am I to argue (or is it discuss)!

We could even get into the discussion about how resilient the SWA could be to a spade anyway, or in the event that the cable is damaged there is also circuit protection devices that will disconnect the supply without taking the whole street out!

As has been mentioned the regs book has many grey areas and trys to be something to everyone. This has been compiled by better men than me!

Oh! I maybe meeting one of the guys who is listed on the Technical Committee for Ammendment 1 this week and if I get chance I'll ask him why no specific depth!
 
That's my point yellowvanman, BS7671 just give snippets of information scattered all over the show. Some other expansions on cable depths, you need to go to the various GN's.

There are industry recognised tables, giving standard and special requirement cable depths for both direct buried and buried cable duct. Been racking my memory as to who produces them, but it's eluding me at the moment...

I doubt if you'll get much help or sense out of this Technical Committee guy, but can't hurt to ask i suppose!!! I've asked various questions, at various times, over the nearly 30 years i've been a member (none of which were simple requests of confirmation of Reg definitions), and i can honestly say, that i've never had a single question officially answered to this day....
 
I did speak to the guy on the Technial committee today and he fully supports what BS7671 says, letting you decide whats the best depth and he gave a number of reasons, and also explained an example he has personally dealt with.

DNO have minimum depths specified but don't always stick by them.

So all in all everybody has to make their own calls, based on the circumstances they are dealt with, you may not like what other do and thats your choice.
 
I did speak to the guy on the Technial committee today and he fully supports what BS7671 says, letting you decide whats the best depth and he gave a number of reasons, and also explained an example he has personally dealt with.

DNO have minimum depths specified but don't always stick by them.

So all in all everybody has to make their own calls, based on the circumstances they are dealt with, you may not like what other do and thats your choice.

Of course the guy's going to ''fully support'' what stated in B7671, he HAS too if he's part of the so called technical committee!!

This guy ''actually stated'' cable burial depths are totally down to the individual electricians own assessment?? Sorry, ...I Don't believe that!!! So come on tell us, give us these number of reasons, for letting electricians decide the ''best cable burial depth'' and the example he personally dealt with?? I believe all you got out of this guy, was a rough round-up of what's stated in the Reg's and guidance notes, ...and that's it!!!

The DNO Pay handsomely when they fail to meet there own stated minimum depths, and a cable or system is damaged as a result of that non-compliance!!!


So what your saying here then ...is throw away all these recognised minimum burial depths for buried and ducted distribution cables and let, ....well lets say a 6 week trained electrician decide what depths to bury his cables at!!! ....Hell no-one will ever have the slightest idea ever again, what depths to expect buried cable to be, when marked on survey drawings ....

It's nothing to do with me or what i do or others do, and should certainly have nothing to do with ''Personal Choice''!!! ....It has everything to do with having a set of recognised safety minimum standard burial depths where everyone will have an understanding of just how deep, a given set of cable(s) will be buried too, ...when having to do further work in that area...
 
There you go ranting on again and calling me a liar! How can you call this a 'discussion' when you go on like you do?

One example given:

Why bury cables >500mm when they are covered with concrete or paving slabs

You still haven't come up with a document that specifies minimum cable depth.
 
I just know, from many past experience's, that your not going to get any definitive or official answers from these guys... If i couldn't get any meaningful answers, and being a full member from the IEE onwards, ...your not!!!!

Hmmmm, ....There are minimum cable burial depths for given conditions, voltage bands, and environments, cable, ducts. There isn't just one!!! ..Obviously, the higher the risk the deeper the minimum burial depth!!!

No i haven't, but i'll continue looking, ...if fact i'm pretty sure i've seen an example posted here by a member. You'll be the first to be notified as soon as i do find it!!!
 
What has being a full member of the IEE got to do with it! Maybe thats why you demean everybody else's opinion!

You don't know anybody else's background or qualifications, try to communicate with others as equals, then maybe we'd all get along better! Some of them maybe even be more qualified and experienced than you!
 
Iv'e read all these posts with interest and would comment thus.

BS7671 is not a Statutory Instrument, but as we all know in the event of a court case (Civil or Criminal) would be used as a bench-mark to show compliance/non-compliance to, or with 'best practice'. In my opinion the courts would also take into account the Guidance Notes, Onsite guides etc and it would be reasonable to expect a spark to reference this material in making a judgement/decision.

Someone mentioned not having GN1 because they only do certain types of work and they were not required to show they had the document for their assessment (I presume they were referring to Part P). In my opinion this does only show the bare minimum level of compliance and commitment when one is actively working in the industry? You could picture the court case... (Legal advisor) 'well Mr Electrician why didn't you have/reference document XYZ'? (sparky) 'well your honour my scam provider didn't say I had to have it to 'pass' my Part P assessment'. (Legal Advisor) 'So there are or were other documents available that could have helped you in making your decision about the cable depth, but you chose not to bother"? (Sparky) - Looks at feet and shuffles awkwardly...

I assume that when BS7671 was written, the writers took into account ESQC Regs 2002. The relevant section states:

Excavations and depth of underground cables
14.—(1) Every underground cable shall be kept at such depth or be otherwise protected so as to avoid, so far as is reasonably practicable, any damage or danger by reason of such uses of the land which can be reasonably expected.
(2) In addition to satisfying the requirements of paragraph (1), an underground cable containing conductors not connected with earth shall be protected, marked or otherwise indicated so as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that any person excavating the land above the cable will be given sufficient warning of its presence.
(3) The protection, marking or indication required by paragraph (2) shall be made by placing the cable in a pipe or duct or by overlaying the cable at a suitable distance with protective tiles or warning tape or by the provision of such other protective or warning device, mark or indication, or by a suitable combination of such measures, as will be likely to provide an appropriate warning.


Whilst neither BS7671 or ESQCR specifics a minimum depths for this instance other sections of the Wiring Regs do indicate cable depths, but normally for a reason, e.g. 600mm for caravan pitches (presumably to avoid tent peg strikes) etc. We could look at other electrical documents that it would be reasonable for an electrician to possess or at least have access to. GN1 has already been mentioned and suggests a depth of between 450mm and 600mm depending upon location. The On-site guide to the Building Regs on page 68 suggests a minimum depth of 500mm 'in all locations and where double digging is likely to occur, 600mm'. The NICEIC Snags and Solutions book, Snag 25 suggests a minimum depth of 600mm.

Now I appreciate that this reference material are not Statutory Regulations but the combined 'weight of evidence' does allude to the sort of depths cables should be laid at? All of this helps me to conclude that 300mm is certainly an insufficient depth for a buried cable and I for one would not be content with a cable that shallow. It's great that the OP? mentioned risk assessing the job about depth - but 450mm/500mm should be a minimum bench-mark depth that the risk assessment takes into account and to be honest, if I were digging or having a trench dug to 500mm you may as well go down to 600mm for good measure; which would also allow plenty of scope when back filling?

Well, that's my informed view on the matter :)
 
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What has being a full member of the IEE got to do with it! Maybe thats why you demean everybody else's opinion!

You don't know anybody else's background or qualifications, try to communicate with others as equals, then maybe we'd all get along better! Some of them maybe even be more qualified and experienced than you!

There's always one like you isn't there, that tries to make something out of nothing!!!
Just read my last post again, i think it's blatantly obvious the point i was making or trying to make!!

It's got nothing to do with anyone's qualifications, and i don't need to know anyone elses qualifications to make a point, or an observation....
 

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