Switch rooms, Sub stations.

[Mr Mike]

Hi all.
I need some advise please.
Where I work the switch rooms are continually being used as storage rooms, materials such as toilet tissue, mops, vacuum cleaners ect.
Even the main sub station has rubbish in it.
To get to DBs I have to clear a path ect.
Is there any legislation covering these rooms, preventing them being used this way.
I need some info so I can do battle with the powers that be.
Any guidance will be much appreciated.
Kind regards
Mike

 

[Engineer54]

Its always a bit of a gamble with a lot of switcgear isn't it! We have done a shutdown at hospital before, the hospital being about 25 years old, the problem being that none of the ACBs or switches had ever been operated since installation! Needless to say we had a 25% failure rate, ended up cost about £25000 worth of gear!

Hospital electrical installations should under go regular inspection and testing, that should include main switchboards. All hospital distribution systems are so designed to allow such inspection and testing. To me, this just tells me that the Hospital Engineer isn't worth a carrot, if nothing in the main switch-room has been tested in that hospital for 25 years....

 

[somersetsparks]

Yep, the shutdown was ordered by the new maintenance engineer, the thing is it had all been thermally imaged regularily but never actually operated!

 

[Engineer54]

Well let's hope the NEW Hospital Engineer has learn a valuable lesson, that there is no substitute for hands on physical testing and inspection. Relying on thermal imaging is a nonsense, It's fine for checking for high resistance contacts and joints etc, but it isn't going to tell you if a breakers mechanisms are working or not, or if breaker trip settings are functioning correctly, ...if at all!!!

 

[somersetsparks]

Well let's hope the NEW Hospital Engineer has learn a valuable lesson, that there is no substitute for hands on physical testing and inspection. Relying on thermal imaging is a nonsense, It's fine for checking for high resistance contacts and joints etc, but it isn't going to tell you if a breakers mechanisms are working or not, or if breaker trip settings are functioning correctly, ...if at all!!!

Which indeed it didn't (main ACB) therefore stopping the whole shutdown until a new one arrived 6 weeks later!
For some reason nothing ever showed up on the thermal imaging.....
​

 

[Engineer54]

Which indeed it didn't (main ACB) therefore stopping the whole shutdown until a new one arrived 6 weeks later!
For some reason nothing ever showed up on the thermal imaging...​

Why would it show anything up?? If there was no hot spots caused by bad contacts, and connections, nothing will show up!!

That's my point, ''thermal imaging'' is just ''ONE'' type of testing, that would or could be employed during an inspection and testing routine, ...it certainly isn't the ONLY routine test!!!

 

[somersetsparks]

Sorry engineer, I meant it cynically!

 

[Kamikaze]

Hi all.
I need some advise please.
Where I work the switch rooms are continually being used as storage rooms, materials such as toilet tissue, mops, vacuum cleaners ect.
Even the main sub station has rubbish in it.
To get to DBs I have to clear a path ect.
Is there any legislation covering these rooms, preventing them being used this way.
I need some info so I can do battle with the powers that be.
Any guidance will be much appreciated.
Kind regards
Mike

You don’t need them Muppets from the H&S. Just quote them this:
The electricity at work act 1989, Part 1-Section 15
For the purposes of enabling injury to be prevented, adequate working space, adequate means of access, and adequate lighting shall be provided at all electrical equipment on which or near which work is being done in circumstances which may give rise to danger.

 

[Knobhead]

You don’t need them Muppets from the H&S. Just quote them this:
The electricity at work act 1989, Part 1-Section 15
For the purposes of enabling injury to be prevented, adequate working space, adequate means of access, and adequate lighting shall be provided at all electrical equipment on which or near which work is being done in circumstances which may give rise to danger.

Unfortunately some companies can be vindictive.

 

[Kamikaze]

Unfortunately some companies can be vindictive.

I agree with you, but good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. I find that being very subtle helps. Every chance Mr Mike gets he should put it in writing but not make a fuss about it. Most certificates have a section that allows you to state the “Details of departures”. Just relentlessly fill in paperwork and every chance he gets just write down that everything is just fine with the exception of this small indiscretion. And keep a copy of it if possible. Photograph the pages if you have to. Eventually someone in power will get the message and do something about it because they are too young to go to jail….lol.
Psychological warfare with a smile. You can’t beat it!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Its always a bit of a gamble with a lot of switcgear isn't it! We have done a shutdown at hospital before, the hospital being about 25 years old, the problem being that none of the ACBs or switches had ever been operated since installation! Needless to say we had a 25% failure rate, ended up cost about £25000 worth of gear![/QUOTE]

Most likely find this poor engineer looking for future employment, costing the trust 25K. Luckily never worked a great deal on maintenance, but was always told by the maintenance engineers that the maintenance department is the curse of the accountants, as it costs a fortune and it never makes a profit.

I think all the arguments that if it ever broke down then it could affect the profit was always met with, well let's wait till it does, there was many a sigh I gather from engineers in these type of meetings.

 

[Mr Mike]

I agree with you, but good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. I find that being very subtle helps. Every chance Mr Mike gets he should put it in writing but not make a fuss about it. Most certificates have a section that allows you to state the “Details of departures”. Just relentlessly fill in paperwork and every chance he gets just write down that everything is just fine with the exception of this small indiscretion. And keep a copy of it if possible. Photograph the pages if you have to. Eventually someone in power will get the message and do something about it because they are too young to go to jail….lol.
Psychological warfare with a smile. You can’t beat it!

Thank you, I like the line of thought.
Indeed thanks to all for your valued thoughts.
Heres hoping to a sound solution.
Kindest regards
Mike.

 

[Knobhead]

On the subject of protection, you’ll love this. One of the substation switch rooms had three boards.

• Main board fed by 4 1250KVA transformers. 21 ACB’s
• Sub board 1 fed from main board, out going CFS 600A to 800A. 12 switches in total.
• Sub board 2 fed from main board, out going CFS 30A to 450A. 48 switches in total.

So muggin’s here was asked to look at a DB out on the plant. Fed by a 16mm 4C. The work needed the board to be isolated. So had a look all over board 2 (the logical place to feed it from) no sign of it. OK have a look at board 1, found it! Isolated and got on with the job.
So came time to re-energise, just out of curiosity I opened the switch, it still had the 800A fuses fitted! The DB stayed off while I made adapters to fit 100A fuses to it.
I collared the electrician that fitted the DB to ask what the hell he’d been thinking of. “Well it was the nearest switch so I used it”. What about the fuses? “The fuses are OK they fit the switch”. Thank god the old duffer retired a couple of months later.

16mm with 800A fuses!

 

[somersetsparks]

Bloody hell! Imagine if you had a fault on that!
I've never seem it on that scale but quite regularily see 25mm on 200A etc. Like you say people just use any free switch.

 

[Engineer54]

Tony,

That main switchboard, ...3 Buss couplers?? Had a similar set-up on a project in Libya, with 4 1600KVA TX's with a bus link to a second main switchboard supplied by a 1250 KVA TX. All automatic controls, including non-essential load shedding if one of the 1600 TX's needed to pick up load on a downed TX. Also in the same switch room, was the MV GCB switchboard, with 2 supply incomers, 5 outgoing TX and a stand-by 3 MVA generator incomer. Again all fully automatically controlled with links to the LV switchboard....

Long story to those panels controls, ...after 3 failed attempts by the main contractor and his subby, a complete re-wiring of the LV panels controls, brought the system up to working spec's!! lol!!!

 

[Knobhead]

The one I loved was our senior engineer, we never saw eye to eye on switching procedures. Fairly simple job to do shut down a 11/.44KV 1000KVA TX without loosing supply to its load. The board had two TX’s each fed ultimately from 2 33/11KV 20MVA intake TX’s

• Boss to me, close the bus-section
• Me, bu**er off we’ve not balanced the ATC’s or closed the main bus-section
• Boss, no need to do that
• You do it then
• Boss, give me that handle
• I’m off

I heard the ACB close and the lights went out. Both TX’s tripped. I wanted to go back and say I told you so but I couldn’t, I was sat on the floor in the HV room howling with laughter. While he’s explaining to the MD why the Head office and computer centre were in darkness. I had a wander up to the intake sub, some clown had switched one ATC to manual and left the other in auto. 6 steps plus several 100A difference.