SY cable on EICR again ....

[lozarus]

Morning all

So the site I'm based at recently had some work done (think partitioners). This package of work included electrical. This was actually good news to me in a way, as it was one less job for me to do on an already busy schedule - but it was niggling at me that I'd possibly end up having to review things.
It came to light that there was no certification provided - efforts have been made by higher ups to get this but nothing has transpired yet. As such they've raised a job for me to "check it over" - so I'll be doing a small EICR on the circuits they've worked on/created.

I've only looked at it visually thus far. The extent of the works isn't huge - it consists of 1x New Circuit - 32a RCBO to a 32a socket, wired in what looks like 4.0mm SY (to be verified). 1x New Circuit, 16a RCBO to an FCU and a double socket, wired in what seems to be 1.5mm SY (to be verified) and a little bit of modification to an existing circuit I worked on a few years ago.

Having not yet done any testing (this is for later today) - the SY is what's crying out to me as a main concern thus far. As is the 1.5 to a socket outlet a little bit.

At this point I should mention, 7671, OSG and GN3 are conveniently located on my coffee table at home whilst I was doing some study last night. So I haven't got anything to refer to today. I'm looking for a bit of help coding and citing regulations for my concerns as such. I'm also reasonably new to Inspection & Testing so would really value any help people can offer.

Concern 1: SY hasn't been glanded properly. I suspect the sheath isn't earthed. It's taped up about 1ft from the sockets with PVC tape. It enters the board end via a stuffing gland so I suspect it isn't earthed there either. Assuming it isn't earthed I'd be tempted to C2 it - as I know how thin the inner core of SY is and how perishable the clear sheath is and fear the braid could become live under fault condition. I'm all to aware of the debacle surrounding SY/NY/YY etc cables. I've been through datasheets for the likes of Eland cables - the general consensus seems to be "use it but it's not really made for final circuits and you need to gland it properly but if you use it for a final circuit it'll probably be OK".

Even if they have earthed it at the board end - it just doesn't feel right that they've used it for a final circuit, but again, how can i code and ualify this?

But I'm struggling for a reg to back up my concerns above. Maybe th eone about manufacturers instructions? I'm unsure what I would refer to for the braid not being earthed witht he correct glands too.

Concern 2: 1.5mm feeding a socket. It's a short distance really (maybe 10m) but testing will prove whether ADS is met. It's likely going to be OK, but it doesn't fall into the standard circuits specified in 7671. They only show 1.5 feeding sockets when it's backed up by a 13a FCU in the diagrams page (I forget the page number). This is backed up by a 16a RCBO. I may be clutching at straws a bit but I'd be tempted to C3 this as it doesn't follow a recognized circuit design - and importantly, I have no evidence from the installer to demonstrate it meets or exceeds the requirements of 7671.

It's a bizzare install. They've used fire clips and such over the corridor the cables cross. But the SY is done rough and the general standards are quite low - no labelling of any of the points etc.

Apologies for the long read - just like to give as much detaul as possible.

 

[Spoon]

There was a time when the manufacturers used to state that it's not good fixed installation.
Eland now states:

The braid does need to be glanded properly, if it's used for protection.

IMO: Nothing wrong with using 1.5mm cable for power. It's in the regs that you can.

 

[richy3333]

Does this help you with your deliberations?

 

[SparkySy]

^^^^ I think that statement sums up it up nicely, no sensible respectable electrician is going to choose SY over cable compliant with British standards for fixed wiring! Imho it is not fit or compliant for the application it is being used for!

 

[Vortigern]

Well I know I would not sign off on SY cable. As it is not standard (BS) cable it would be hard to justify using it as it would be a departure given we are required to ensure accessories and cabling meet those standards. Descriptions of poor termination and inadequate attention to glanding again would a a reason that an EICR for me would be a fail.

 

[lozarus]

Thanks all. As @Vortigern says - if id been asked to do it id have been running a standard cable across.

i think ill code as I see fit and do some further study. I'm keen to cross reference it with a reg because I just know when my EICR goes to the company I'll get some comeback from their electrician (who I suspect is just one of their general builders) - so really want to prepare myself to shoot down his retort

 

[cliffed]

The problem is with SY everybody uses it…I’ve seen so many temps done with it.
C2 if braid not earthed..correct glands should always be used, it’s flexible & easy to use.
BS7671 definitely forbids the use.. it’s not a BS..

 

[westward10]

If you are going to earth the braid how are you going to ensure it can carry fault current. BS7671 does not forbid its use it makes no mention of it.

 

[SparkySy]

I agree the braid is very unlikely and not guaranteed by manufacturers to handle fault current and as such could introduce more of a hazard to the installation.

 

[lozarus]

I agree the braid is very unlikely and not guaranteed by manufacturers to handle fault current and as such could introduce more of a hazard to the installation.

This is a valid point. I imagine even a small fault current would blow it apart

 

[davesparks]

1.5mm is the minimum permitted size of cable for a power circuit so there is nothing specifically wrong with that being used for a 16A socket radial.

 

[westward10]

Problem is that if you Code it finding a Regulation to reference it to. Saying it is not recognised by BS7671 isn't strictly accurate, just because it isn't reference in BS7671 does not mean it is forbidden by them.

 

[cliffed]

Problem is that if you Code it finding a Regulation to reference it to. Saying it is not recognised by BS7671 isn't strictly accurate, just because it isn't reference in BS7671 does not mean it is forbidden by them.

Agree maybe a bit harsh using forbid… I certainly don’t use it but many do

 

[lozarus]

I can see this just going down the route of me jusy saying "it's a bit rough and wasn't worth the £2k that was paid for 2 new circuits and some modifications"

 

[Vortigern]

I think the term is discouraged as it does not fit within BS7671 requirement to use BS standard or harmonised standards as per pg. 100 on site guide. Anyway having seen sy cable used in a few installations, especially outside, I am not convinced of its robustness or suitability especiall externally. I have seen the braid rusted all along the length of the cable it seems it wicks water along the braid.