T&E Sub Main

[Octopus]

How are you going to submit this risk assessment, are we going to have another bloody certificate to fill out?
Who are you going to give it too, what are the time limitations on it, 15 yrs down the road some poor sod gets electrocuted and there is a risk assessment done by you are the electric police going to come a calling.
I have mostly championed the IET I often felt that they were on to somewhat an hiding to nothing, trying to please everyone all the time, but this to me does open a really dangerous can of worms.
We all know how our industry is going in respect of training and workmanship, but it beggers belief that judging by some of the post on here by some so called electricians, I wouldn't trust them to risk assess walking a dog let alone an electrical installation .
Said it before I'm so glad I'm at the end of my time in this game

I can tell you now that I will not be filling out any more forms UNLESS the IET set up a team and go round and sort out all the other trades circumnavigating their regs.

 

[CockneyReject]

How exactly does one 'risk assess' the requirement for an RCD?

Pay the NIC 600 quid a year, wait for them to bring a risk assessment for divvys guide out, pay over the odds for not having ANY common sense and go round blindly slapping risk assessments on everything in sight

 

[davesparks]

I'm starting to get a sense that we'll soon be getting bright yellow stickers warning us of circuits without RCDs on them.

 

[CockneyReject]

Please no, DB's are like a kids sticker book as they are never mind adding another one, come to think of it is there even room on your average DB for another bloody sticker?

 

[davesparks]

There isn't room for them all on a regular size CU!

 

[Knobhead]

There isn't room for them all on a regular size CU!

There is on my CU, I cleaned the bloody lot off.


To give you a giggle. I was site agent on an industrial install which had two distribution voltages. During my morning walk round I noticed lots of yellow stickers so had a look, 415V (This was a while ago.)
Waited until this lad had finished going around with his roll of stickers before calling his boss in to the office. “Get the lad to clean every one of those labels off.” “Why?” “Well there’s two things, one is a minor technicality the other is a bit of an issue. We use 440V and 550V!”

 

[acestu]

Not after June next year Dave if the IET approve the new amendment.

But your spot on he should ask why they need changing, and want proof that they are unsafe for continuing use.

Hi Malcolm,

Could you expand on the proposed amendment a little please ....

thanks in advance
Acestu

 

[Richard Burns]

Hi Malcolm,

Could you expand on the proposed amendment a little please ....

thanks in advance
Acestu

AMD3 draft for public comment presented the following information as to the proposed changes in the requirements for RCD protection of sockets.
If this change is adopted then it will be in force from June 2015.
PART 4
PROTECTION FOR SAFETY
CHAPTER 41
PROTECTION AGAINST ELECTRIC SHOCK
411 PROTECTIVE MEASURE: AUTOMATIC DISCONNECTION OF SUPPLY
411.3 Requirements for fault protection
411.3.3 Additional protection
In a.c. systems. additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:
(i) socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A and
(ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 A for use outdoors.
An exception to (i) is permitted
(a) for a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment, or
(b) where a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary.
NOTE 1: See also Regulations 314.1(iv) and 531.2.4 concerning the avoidance of unwanted tripping.
NOTE 2: The requirements of Regulation 411.3.3.; do not apply to FELV systems according to Regulation 411.7 or reduced low voltage systems according to Regulation 411.8.

 

[acestu]

AMD3 draft for public comment presented the following information as to the proposed changes in the requirements for RCD protection of sockets.
If this change is adopted then it will be in force from June 2015.
PART 4
PROTECTION FOR SAFETY
CHAPTER 41
PROTECTION AGAINST ELECTRIC SHOCK
411 PROTECTIVE MEASURE: AUTOMATIC DISCONNECTION OF SUPPLY
411.3 Requirements for fault protection
411.3.3 Additional protection
In a.c. systems. additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:
(i) socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A and
(ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 A for use outdoors.
An exception to (i) is permitted
(a) for a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment, or
(b) where a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary.
NOTE 1: See also Regulations 314.1(iv) and 531.2.4 concerning the avoidance of unwanted tripping.
NOTE 2: The requirements of Regulation 411.3.3.; do not apply to FELV systems according to Regulation 411.7 or reduced low voltage systems according to Regulation 411.8.

Thanks Richard, if you tell me how to give thanks on this forum then I will...

cheers
Acestu

 

[Andy78]

Just a thought, If this particular part of the amendment comes in, what's to stop me printing out generic risk assessments stating "RCD protection omitted due to circuit being under the control and supervision of a skilled or instructed person"

Could a loophole be that simple ?

 

[Octopus]

I quote:

"An exception to (i) is permitted
(a) for a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment, or
(b) where a documented risk assessment determines that the RCD protection is not necessary."

So I interpret this as a label on the said socket outlet or a risk assessment - now where's my label printer!

 

[Silly Sausage]

So I interpret this as a label on the said socket outlet - now where's my label printer!

Don't let E54 see that, we all know his opinion on labels and stickers!

 

[Octopus]

Don't let E54 see that, we all know his opinion on labels and stickers!

I better get my tin hat on then!

 

[Andy78]

Back to the OP if I may..... did you receive clarification from the electrical contractor as to why these boards are deemed to be necessary of replacement ?

 

[acestu]

Back to the OP if I may..... did you receive clarification from the electrical contractor as to why these boards are deemed to be necessary of replacement ?

Hi,

I will ask our operations manager when she comes back off holiday what they have actually said.

thanks
Acestu