testing other electricians work

[baldsparkies]

So to sum up

Apart from a Building Inspector, nobody can certify someone else's work as being compliant with the Building Regulations. Unless arranged by or in cooperation with LABC, a 3rd party electrical inspection is of no value in terms of complying with the law.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm amended by the 2006 SI here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20060652.htm

 

[mdavismccoy]

Hi, there are moral issues here. why would you want to sign anyone else's work off. A job that has been carried out by the guy from the pub, or anyone who carries out any electrical work without issuing a certificate. The home owner may have carried out the work and cannot issue an EIC.

You are asked to carry out I&T, you would use a 3 signature certificate certificate, parts 1 and 2, you would put in "an other". You do your visuals, as far as you can go. In the limitations you put not lifted or unable to lift the floor boards, not inspected cable routes or first fix. Do your tests, circuits electrically sound, all results satisfy the criteria, and the materials used satisfy the requirements for the installation.

You are interested in IS IT SAFE.

It has to be an inital inspection and test, not a PIR.

When you are satisfied with the EIC, Shedule of inspections, shedule of test results. You send them to who ever, if they are not satisfied and class them as incomplete, to what are they competent to say so. If the person responsible for the design and installation had been known, don't the realise you would have had them to sign the forms.

If the persons who receives the EIC and associated paper work, you would expect the to understand what everything means and do their homework and not look for all the boxes to be ticked, then shuffle the paper work.

No need to stand your ground, tell them to have their facts right before getting on to you. You have checked and double checked that you have facts right. Don't teach them what you have took time to learn and give it to them on a plate (am not talking about other sparks or trainee's I no problems with helping others in the trade, or advising none electrical persons).

 

[tmaelectrical09]

Hello can anyone help. I have an nvq lvl 3 and am looking to start up on my own. Am i able to do any testing without doing 2391/2392. Also what do you need to qualify for part p.
Regards Tom

 

[Richard Andrews]

Let's talk legal...Part P Electrical Installation Certificate... If I had done the job or supervised the job I could put a new electrical certificate on the job.

If somebody else had done the job then I would only do a Periodical... Building Control should have been notified if the person responsible for the job wasn't registered, but with building control's nod a periodical can get the house owner their compliance paperwork.

Don't be afraid to put those having the work done or those doing it in the hands of building control and the law - prosecutions lead to publicity regarding the negative side of having a job done on the cheap and publicity leads to education. The best education is what cost somebody dearly££££££.

I know times are getting rough in this credit -crunch (unless you're a politician with an expense account) and protecting what you pay membership fees to do seems to be the only way to survive...

 

[mdavismccoy]

Hi, all new installations should have an inital I&T, subsequent I&T periodics at the inspectors recommendations or GN3/IET recommendations.

I don't agree with the "building control's nod can get the house owner their compliance paperwork".

If building control has been notified by a customer and paid the fee, electrical installation work can be carried out by anyone who is qualified or not(DIYER), building control has to I&T and cover the cost of I&T to themselves at no cost to the customer. They must do an inital I&T and issue the correct EIC, shedule of inspections and shedule of test results.

Thats why electricians do no have to members of a scheme to carry out new builds, new extensions, or any work which has building control involved. Check out the part P information. Also it is the home owner who has to notify BC.

Or the accept EIC, shedule of inspections and shedule of test results, from a competent person.

As far as the Competent Persons Scheme, should be called Competent Enterprise Scheme as it is the enterprise which is registered, not an actual person who is the competent person. The ECS register is an actual competent persons register.

Compliance paperwork, if there is any problems with this when selling a property, the owner could just pay an indemnity insurance to cover any come back.

 

[albi]

i have just finished of a set of flats that where started three years ago the spark that was doing it coled down the company then a 2 week special to over then he got the push. the cliant whants a comp crert . i told him to contact the local council thay come back with i can do a pir witch thay will accept also contacted the niceic thay saide the same but you need to get the councils pommistion first

 

[tomasi]

Regarding this matter,I know of a company who do a lot of apartment blocks and this scenario applies

one team of sparks 1st/2nd fix flats and another team who have not even seen the job till it is completed
turn up and test the flats and sign the EIC,S.

I keep on telling them that they are leaving them selves open to all kinds of hurt,they dont understand and
say they have to and cant refuse to do it, and anyway if they have not got the relevant certification
that is required to test(not even the 17th edition)the company is at fault ,I say to them yes but so are you.

 

[Spudnik]

They should only sign the Inspection and testing box on the cert.

That way they are not liable.

Not always the case though.

 

[Richard Andrews]

Building Control route... Pay BC fee...First Fix inspected by building control...Second Fix and Periodical Inspection by Suitably Qualified Person (paid for by the person who's having the electrical work done or included in the price of who's doing the work)...Building Control then provides the Periodical Inspection papers to their own specialist "just to check the test results". This is how it works in my neck of the woods.


BS7671 is the electrical regs, BUT Building Regs are the law..."No new electrical circuit may be energised without being tested" is within the regs AND Building Regs states Part Pworks must meet the electrical regs.

Now... How many diy-ers have callibrated test instruments and are able to complete BS7671 test certificates?

Companies I work for require minor works cert's just for like-for-like changes to reduce the possibility of future litigation.....

 

[Barneyb57]

Question for you all,,,looking at this from the customers point of view......Customer buys a house, he knows that the installation is only lets say 5 years old, it was done by an Electrician who has since retired or moved on say, Customer needs a New Certificate on the installation,,,going by what many of you say on here, that an Electricain cannot legaly test and inspect and issue a Certificate part P EIC or otherwise,,,,,how is the Customer supposed to get a certificate to satisfy the local Authority or for inclusion in a H.I.P. for instance??

As a Former Electrician,,,as in not presently working as an Electrician and not 17th Edition but was 15th edition, having just bought a house an older property,,,,and as such it needs Rewiring, and I want to rewire it myself, having done hundreds in the past, how can I get the new installation tested and inspected, what is the best way of doing this?

 

[Spudnik]

Your best option is to involve your LABC.

For a fee of around £150 they (or someone they appoint) will do the necessary inspection and testing throughout the installation from first fix to completion, to ensure it complies with the current regs.

Bear in mind we are on the 17th now and there are some substantial changes from previous editions.

Also, you MUST notify them and pay the fee before you start.

 

[electricAl]

The unfortunate truth is that there appears to be no common approach shared by the various LABC`s.
Whereas a BC office in one area adhere to one practice, another in a different area implement different rules.
This just adds to the already confused certification issues.
I sometimes wonder if our local BC have even read AppDoc PartP.

Depending if Capricorn is in the house of Virgo or not, i`ve had them tell me, then confirm, & finally deny all knowledge, that a JIB graded (but non Part P reg) spark can sign off the Inspection & Testing for an EIC to avoid the cost of the Local Authority employing a 3rd party to do it. That way the client would just pay the admin charge of approx £90, & not the extra £240 they state for I&E. I had never even thought of it as a possibility until they told me they`d accept it (but later retracted it)

Glad i don`t have to deal with `em all the time

 

[Jono Pashley]

Building Control route... Pay BC fee...First Fix inspected by building control...Second Fix and Periodical Inspection by Suitably Qualified Person (paid for by the person who's having the electrical work done or included in the price of who's doing the work)...Building Control then provides the Periodical Inspection papers to their own specialist "just to check the test results". This is how it works in my neck of the woods.


BS7671 is the electrical regs, BUT Building Regs are the law..."No new electrical circuit may be energised without being tested" is within the regs AND Building Regs states Part Pworks must meet the electrical regs.

Now... How many diy-ers have callibrated test instruments and are able to complete BS7671 test certificates?

Companies I work for require minor works cert's just for like-for-like changes to reduce the possibility of future litigation.....

Its down to the LABC to arrange inspecting and testing, although do like to try and dump this onto the client.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/734995.pdf

page 33-34 para 4.5

By Electrical regs i would think they mean EAWR, of which BS7671 is one way to comply.
BS7671 does not have to be complied with, in some cases an engineering decision has to be made, there is no problem with this as long as you can prove what you did was safe.

 

[albi]

you will need to let Building Control know what you are going to do and ask them for guidance.

 

[Barneyb57]

you will need to let Building Control know what you are going to do and ask them for guidance.

Yes maybe,,,but as Im going to do the 17th edition etc,shortly, and the Part P, May as well wait and then sign it off myself.

The unfortunate truth is that there appears to be no common approach shared by the various LABC`s.
Whereas a BC office in one area adhere to one practice, another in a different area implement different rules.
This just adds to the already confused certification issues.
I sometimes wonder if our local BC have even read AppDoc PartP.

Depending if Capricorn is in the house of Virgo or not, i`ve had them tell me, then confirm, & finally deny all knowledge, that a JIB graded (but non Part P reg) spark can sign off the Inspection & Testing for an EIC to avoid the cost of the Local Authority employing a 3rd party to do it. That way the client would just pay the admin charge of approx £90, & not the extra £240 they state for I&E. I had never even thought of it as a possibility until they told me they`d accept it (but later retracted it)

Glad i don`t have to deal with `em all the time

So are you saying that if your JIB graded you can sign off the inspection and testing??

I am JIB Graded...