The holy grail of BS7671 amendment 3 plastic vs metal c/u's

[baldsparkies]

Consumer units compliant with amendment 3 have to pass some kind of glow test to BSEN61439-3

I like many have seen and read information suggesting that all domestic consumer units will shortly need to be installed constructed of steel rather than plastic as a result of this new wonder ruling.

It would appear that this is not the case.
And looks like another red herring that comes to light every time those bored people sitting around a table want to create some extra cash.

Once again its down to us sparks to try and pick the wood from the trees, so I thought this link might help clear some of the only metal clad rumours.

http://www.doepke.co.uk/catalogue/Cat-pdf/conunits.pdf

 

[Gavin A]

actually what the hell is the point of allowing a plastic cabinet to be enclosed in a non-combustible cabinet?

It still means the plastic cabinet will provide the fuel for the fire to burn, just as it will now, and a non-combustible cabinet isn't the same as one that is actually designed to contain / smother any fire.

 

[telectrix]

it's all a load of bollox. any fire within a CU is caused by either poor quality parts and/or incompetent installation. address these 2 issues and the problem is solved. treat the disease, not the symptoms.

 

[netblindpaul]

It is the same reasoning as is behind a wooden fire door.
Simples.

 

[baldsparkies]

You can take the implications even further, a lot further in fact.
Amendments in regulations and even a new edition of the regs has been with us throughout our working lives.
Each time they are introduced it is to improve on existing.
But this regulation oversteps the mark and I will tell you why.
The regulation has been put into affect in an attempt to correct a potential fire hazard using consumer units that were considered to be compliant, up to this point.
Therefore unlike past amendments all the installations before amendment 3 of the 17th are by definition dangerous installs.
Further more any EICR or PIR produced post 3rd ed are also meaningless, because they are all C2. How else can you code a potential fire hazard ???
This is probably one of the most controversial changes to the regs I have ever seen.
Minefields and can of worms all in one.

 

[Octopus]

I've got a better idea - discuss pro's and con's and costs with clients and let them choose!

2 fingers to the muppets writing the regs.

 

[telectrix]

not worth 2 fingers. i slowly raise 1. :fuk2:

 

[Gavin A]

actually, I just checked the definition of combustible.

able to catch fire and burn easily.

Non-combustible would therefore be something that couldn't catch fire easily, rather than something that can't catch fire at all.

Actually it's defined in testing via EN ISO 1182

[h=3]Test procedure[/h] A test specimen is located inside a cylindrical furnace tube at 750 °C. The furnace and specimen temperatures are measured continuously during the test. Potential combustion of the test specimen is registered as temperature rise and/or visible flames. Mass loss of the test specimen is calculated after the test. These parameters are used to decide if the product is non-combustible or not

So any material with an autoignition temperature higher than 750 degrees C would comply.

So not just steel.

 

[Tommy C]

Another pain will be In a TT installation where the main switch will have to be in an enclosure that isn't considered class 1. Either a plastic one deemed to comply or a special double insulated one as there is no RCD for fault protection at this point.

 

[spark 68]

You can take the implications even further, a lot further in fact.
Amendments in regulations and even a new edition of the regs has been with us throughout our working lives.
Each time they are introduced it is to improve on existing.
But this regulation oversteps the mark and I will tell you why.
The regulation has been put into affect in an attempt to correct a potential fire hazard using consumer units that were considered to be compliant, up to this point.
Therefore unlike past amendments all the installations before amendment 3 of the 17th are by definition dangerous installs.
Further more any EICR or PIR produced post 3rd ed are also meaningless, because they are all C2. How else can you code a potential fire hazard ???
This is probably one of the most controversial changes to the regs I have ever seen.
Minefields and can of worms all in one.

Exactly, this and the pointless C min factor, I agree with you that most new editions/amds were to improve on the previous edition/amd, however this amd seems to have been rushed out, at the DPC stage it said it was to harmonise closer to Europe, then we find that this reg has a 200 suffix, meaning UK only. wtf

 

[Octopus]

Another pain will be In a TT installation where the main switch will have to be in an enclosure that isn't considered class 1. Either a plastic one deemed to comply or a special double insulated one as there is no RCD for fault protection at this point.

ha ha. I might just ask my assessor about this later in the year!

 

[telectrix]

and what about all the combustible junk piled up by the customer against the wonderful non combustible CU?

 

[D Skelton]

So any material with an autoignition temperature higher than 750 degrees C would comply.

What, like something that was 960 degrees C glow wire tested?

 

[Gavin A]

What, like something that was 960 degrees C glow wire tested?

exactly so. And that's the EN standard test for non-combustible materials, so is about as nailed on a definition as you can get.

 

[netblindpaul]

It seems like the penny is finally dropping, trouble is, there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Another pain will be In a TT installation where the main switch will have to be in an enclosure that isn't considered class 1. Either a plastic one deemed to comply or a special double insulated one as there is no RCD for fault protection at this point.

That is a very good point!! I wonder if a single RCD Enclosure will come under new reg or is it strictly the definition of consumer unit. Reckon they will insist on metal clad accessories next!