The price of 17th ed course

[Paul.M]

There has just been a thread posted by a learning center offering the 17th ed course and exam for £570 inc vat. The thread has been correctly removed due to not being a forum sponsor.

My question is, do you really think you need 3 days tuition to understand and pass this exam? Yes its a very important qualification that all electricians need but for the price, well can it be valid. The exam by itself costs around £35 and a few people on this forum have revised at home and just sat the exam and passed with flying colours.

People with electrical training should be able to down load past papers, look through the brb and get themselves familiar with it and save themselves a whole lot of money. After all this is no way near as hard has the 2391 that does need a lot of classroom and workshop practice and the 2391 is only about £100 more?

What are your own views and opinions on this subject? Is it to expensive? Do we need a 3 day course?

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve always been in heavy engineering maintenance but had to do the 17th.
I was bored out of my scull for the entire course, why in the name of god do I need to know how to wire a caravan! As far as I’m concerned I’ll stick to the M&Q and Foundry regs.
Don’t think the course tutor liked me when I ask him why he had to go back to do a second fix, “you should have fixed it the first time round!”

 

[High Tower]

Tony please don't take this the wrong way but that is quite a elitist mentality!

Doesn't matter if you repair foundry machines or fit fused spurs in a domestic kitchen it's all still electrical, and were ALL still electricians albeit of different skill and ability. But one thing we all share, and rightly so is BS7671, OUR regs we should all be conversant with them no matter what!! Your attitude that what do you need to know this and that is probably wrong, I could say the same about the parts that cover heavy industry but I don't, because it's all knowledge and all contributes to make me a better spark.

And the most important point, As self respecting professional electricians, why would we not want to keep ourselves bang up to date with these quals??

As I said Tony please don't think I'm having a go because I can assure you that I'm not it's just my opinion on it!

 

[grantr37]

theres the ILA in Scotland (Individual learning allowance) that is a government scheme and gives you 200 pounds off 1 course a year, so you can claim it every 12 months providing you are unemployed or earning something like 25k or under......it says it is for Scottish UK residents only, but I have seen P*lish people arrive here, and 6 weeks later they were doing 17th edition (as they were told they would get a pay rise) and have successfuly claimed the 200 pounds course discount voucher, I think then anybody who comes up to work in Scotland should be allowed to claim it, fairs fair...by the way they do the course in a stack of different European languages for people who cant read english just like the driving test...
So anybody doing a course in Scotland and earning nothing or burger all after tax.....phone up your college, ask to get put through to student services, then ask the girl on the end of the phone "what about ILA Scotland" they will keep you right.....or you could go to google and type in - ILA Scotland ...where you can put in your details and they will post you out all the forms....you can get it in as little as 1 week after applying.....
I would go for it now and that way maybe you can claim it next year as well before it falls victim to the cutbacks, which I hope it wont, but it is a Scottish scheme so it will probably get hit sometime in the cutbacks...

 

[JLD]

Your right, in 1999 & 2000 when I studied the 16th and 2391 over 14 weeks, one evening a week for each course. You learned something, the tutor wanted you to learn, but that was a proper college. Now its all about pass rate, they are not bothered if you don't learn anything.

Not every training centre is about pass rates though. Most evening classes at colleges run over a longer period because when people attend it is after a hard day at work and so they do not take in the required information and so each week is spent recapping most of the work from previous weeks. A short intensive course can often result in more information being learnt and absorbed. It is all about learning the reasonong behind the book and how to apply and use the knowledge. Many people that call themselves electricians never open the book once they have the qualification and think they know it all. This as we can all agree is not the case.

I agree short courses should be longer but people do not want to give up the time to attend them so until the client base change their wants supply continues to meet demand.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Your right, in 1999 & 2000 when I studied the 16th and 2391 over 14 weeks, one evening a week for each course. You learned something, the tutor wanted you to learn, but that was a proper college. Now its all about pass rate, they are not bothered if you don't learn anything.

Maybe you should enquire about a college/training centre before parting with your money?

 

[tonys]

Maybe you should enquire about a college/training centre before parting with your money?

Not got a problem with colleges, they have an head of department, not fly by nights in for a quick few quid. They seem to be more interest in their students imo and are in it for the long haul. Little bit different to these skill centres popping up all over the place jumping on the band wagon, to rip people.

Went to Loughton College of Further Education as Apprentice and followed up with the 16th and 2391 at Hertford Regional College in Turnford at approx 30 years old.

College first choice every time for me, second choice training centres only if I can not get on the college course and I get desperate.

You could say I was desperate to get my 17th.

 

[rryles]

I did 2382 exam only for about £80. I've never had any electrical training at all but got 98%. If you're a working electrician there is no reason you should need a 3 day course. It's multi-guess, open book and the pass mark is only 60%!

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I did 2382 exam only for about £80. I've never had any electrical training at all but got 98%. If you're a working electrician there is no reason you should need a 3 day course. It's multi-guess, open book and the pass mark is only 60%!

That's completely against the point of the qualification.

 

[rryles]

That's completely against the point of the qualification.

Care to elaborate?

I'm saying the exam is easy, and a working electrician should have more than enough knowledge to pass it without spending time in a classroom. Do you disagree?

 

[High Tower]

Care to elaborate?

I'm saying the exam is easy, and a working electrician should have more than enough knowledge to pass it without spending time in a classroom. Do you disagree?

Its about more than just bein able to look up the answers to the questions in the appropriate place which is all that you have done if you managed a 98% with no electrical training on what you describe as a "mutli guess" paper.

You sould understand the chapters, understand the tables and the curve graphs, you should understand the reference materials and understand and be able to work the formulas. Most of all you should understand and be able to implement the regs and not just read through them to find the answers.

If you can do this without any training either for the 2382 or and electrical training in general then you really are something special!!

 

[tonys]

I did 2382 exam only for about £80. I've never had any electrical training at all but got 98%. If you're a working electrician there is no reason you should need a 3 day course. It's multi-guess, open book and the pass mark is only 60%!

I know I was conned a long with thousands of others, please don't rub it in lol and given your not an Electrician, it just goes to show the course and exam is pile of garbage.

Ive said it all a long, what they charging the working person who's lucky if they can get £12 with a van full of kit, its rip off to show someone how to reference a book.

Hope people wake up and stop funding these FREELOADERS

 

[rryles]

Its about more than just bein able to look up the answers to the questions in the appropriate place which is all that you have done if you managed a 98% with no electrical training on what you describe as a "mutli guess" paper.

You sould understand the chapters, understand the tables and the curve graphs, you should understand the reference materials and understand and be able to work the formulas. Most of all you should understand and be able to implement the regs and not just read through them to find the answers.

If you can do this without any training either for the 2382 or and electrical training in general then you really are something special!!

"multi guess" was rather tongue in cheek, but had a point to it. Multiple choice exams are usually easier. It is perfectly possible to pass the 2382 without understanding the content at all. It shouldn't be, but it is.

I'd like to think that I have a fair understanding of the content. Whilst I don't have any electrical training I do have a degree in electronics, and A-Levels in Maths and Physics, so I'm pretty comfortable with graphs, formulae and basic circuit theory. I also spent many hours studying at home.

Do you think that attending a 3 or 4 day course gives candidates a better understanding of the material? or does it just teach them how to use the index?

 

[tonys]

Do you think that attending a 3 or 4 day course gives candidates a better understanding of the material? or does it just teach them how to use the index?

You know the answer, it's a course to show us Electrician's how to reference a book. Having said that, imo at an evening class over 12/14 weeks (what ever it is) at a proper college they do make more of an effort to teach you a bit about regulations.

I know its all a big con and its set up to raise income and stimulate a false economy and I got caught, but they won't hit me again.

 

[High Tower]

In the college enviroment, you are taught how to reference the book, what the regulations mean, how to interpret them and how to apply the maths and the reference material.

I just find that this sits better with me than hoping my previous maths a-level serves me correctly and hope for the best!

Might as well just turn it on and see if it starts a fire!

Im sorry to all of you guys for my grumpy confrontational attitude towards this but im getting really peeved with the "lets get the bare minimum of qualifications with the bare minimum of effort for the cheapest price" or "what do i need that for!!"

It maybe because im only embarking on my career at the moment but am i the only one that wants to do this with the most amout of effort, trying to digest and understand as much as i physicly can?? i sit through the bits that i already know, which i may add is a damn site more than some of the ,ore experienced sparks on the course!!, and i sit through it all and pay attention in case there is something that i have missed or something that i have not grasped.

Im not saying that the current course is perfect but i have never met anyone that knows it all!

Part of my love for this trade is that we are professionals, who put the effort in.

Again guys sorry about the rant its not directed at anyone!

 

[tonys]

Hightower

Your doing the course over 12/14 evenings yer? if so I agree with some of what you say but over the 2/3 days courses, they are only interested in getting you a pass.

Over the 12/14 evenings, in between these times you can look things up etc, its a kind of home work imo. I enjoy my electrics as well and read and study books when others are on the ---- lol my living comes second to my family, then my fishing and so on.