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Discuss The Ring is dead, long live the Radial!⚡ in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
To be honest I was being a bit provocative/sarcastic. I fully agree there is a place for each of the types of circuit. And the radial is essential in a number of cases. What I rail against is the disposal of the ring final circuit in favour of the radial taking over and dispensing with rfc altogether. I don't think people have thought this through actually. So we have a radial as the preferred household circuit. Branching and branches off of the branches, a kind of fractal growth of additions over the years. Now, it is you job to track down a fault. What would you prefer a nightmare of endless branches or a nice orderly ring with a crossover?I don't quite understand that statement.
About a thousand years ago, when I started, local authority spec in schools was a minimum of 4.0mm MICC to any socket, often we were running a radial to a single socket!Running a 4mm2 to supply a domestic fridge seems like a criminal waste of resources.
Odd!About a thousand years ago, when I started, local authority spec in schools was a minimum of 4.0mm MICC to any socket, often we were running a radial to a single socket!
I did not word that very well, what I should have said was "all specialty outlets to be in 2.5, 4mm or 6mm according to load, sorry about that, it was early.I voted for Radials as that is all the French allow, maximum of eight sockets on 1.5mm and twelve sockets on 2.5mm no calculations needed, all specialty outlets to be in 4mm or 6mm according to load, the list of specialty outlets is very long, but includes hob, oven, fridge, freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer.................well you get the idea.
I voted for Radials as that is all the French allow, maximum of eight sockets on 1.5mm and twelve sockets on 2.5mm no calculations needed, all specialty outlets to be in 4mm or 6mm according to load, the list of specialty outlets is very long, but includes hob, oven, fridge, freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer.................well you get the idea.
or just basic computer witchcraft.There's a rift in the "Space time continuum" on my desk that does that some times, it's either that or the Romulum cloaking device playing up.
"spurs off a ring are the devil, s work" is a comment I would regard as "throwaway" in most cases, but your comments are much too measured and considered for me to take it lightly in your case. Do you really feel so strongly? (I agree by the way but would, nt use the same language). Or have you been swayed by John Ward who used the phrase "devil's work" in relation to ring circuits.The problem with properly verifying a ring is not lost on a radial either (for the record, I think spurs off a ring are the Devil's work and should be you last resort).
Say you have a 32A radial in 4mm, how often would an EICR check it had not been extended in 2.5mm for much the same risk as a double-spur on a ring?
Yes, the usual radials on 20A might be safe for 2.5mm but it is the same underlying problem - if some idiot has extended a circuit badly it is not always apparent from the readings.
I guess checking the worst case Zs is OK for the MCB is probably good enough for most cases, but complete verification of an unknown is a costly and difficult situation in both cases.
Agreed. I often remind customers that when testing we do not have a "crystal ball" and that our meters are limited in what they can tell us. I maintain that the "visual test" is still the single most important o E we carry outIndeed, and one of my bugbears on this forum is those who advise punters to have an EICR because it will identify any problems. No it wont necessarily.... and those of us tasked with carrying out EICR's are not helped by the creation of unrealistic expectations of what an EICR can identify.
Any inspector who doesn't agree with that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an electrical installation.......unless they're testing in braille, of course.I maintain that the "visual test" is still the single most important o E we carry out
I can see why they are allowed, as they don't impact on the safety of a ring when done correctly."spurs off a ring are the devil, s work" is a comment I would regard as "throwaway" in most cases, but your comments are much too measured and considered for me to take it lightly in your case. Do you really feel so strongly
Reply to The Ring is dead, long live the Radial!⚡ in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net