Thermo dynamics for hot water that runs off atmosphere

[Michael Lillis]

these panels were struck off the mcs list. they use a refrigerant to absorb heat from the atmosphere like an air-source but without any type of freeze protection. they obtained their solar keymark under false pretences by filling them with glycol.

mcs will only approve them if they are filled with glycol.

 

[whinmoor]

This is the official MCS viewpoint:

*********

Thermodynamics Products
MCS has recently reviewed a type of product described as thermodynamic solar panels. This follows the listing of a thermodynamic product on the Solar Keymark list. We have now clarified that the Solar Keymark certification has been based on collectors tested with only water as the heat transfer medium. Therefore any systems installed with a refrigerant operating on a vapour compression cycle are not covered by the Solar Keymark certification and subsequently the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS).

Following this clarification we will allow installers to continue registering those collectors using water and / or water-glycol mix as the heat transfer medium ONLY, if they wish to do so. The collector must be installed in full compliance with the conditions under which the Solar Keymark certification was issued and MCS Standard MIS3001.

As of Monday 19th November 2012, the registration under MCS of thermodynamic installations using refrigerant is not permitted. MCS is working with various manufacturers to decide how to extend the scope of the scheme to allow certification of these systems.
This decision does not mean that the refrigerant based systems cannot be installed in the UK, simply that they cannot be registered on the MCS installation database. However, anyone installing these systems will be responsible for ensuring that they meet the relevant UK building and F-GAS regulations.

 

[jason121]

Where has Danlow84 gone, this was just getting interesting.

 

[Danlow84]

Over next few months they will be registered on the mcs database im pretty sure of this.but despite the fact they aint at minute does not mean that the product doesnt work or benefit homes

 

[snowhead]

Where has Danlow84 gone, this was just getting interesting.

He's on the roof,, no wait,, he's on the ground now..

 

[Danlow84]

Dont see why all the negativity and childish comments on here?We have never tried to force anyone to get involved in solar or thermo if it isnt going to benefit them we just give people the facts with free survey just so people can have the facts and figures to read in there own time.

 

[jason121]

Can Thermo dynamics provide enough energy for space heating

 

[Gavin A]

Can Thermo dynamics provide enough energy for space heating

that's a bit of a trick question.

They produce heat at something like 4-600W IIRC, so could feasibly be used for heating in passif house type situations with extremely low heat requirements. They're pretty similar to exhaust air heat pumps in that respect.

They would require an immersion back up as they cut out at something like -10 / -15, but so do many ASHPs.

There's probably only around 0.001% of the UK housing stock that'd have those low levels of heating demand / high insulation levels though, so they're not suitable for retrofitting, but could be a good option if the UK is serious about new builds moving to being extremely low energy using houses.

Of course it also depends on how many are fitted, and I've never really seen proper trade prices for the multiple panel heating units energie offer / have pictures being used, so it's hard to judge the financial viability of such systems vs ASHP / GSHP / EAHP options.

I'm firmly in the camp of more info needed, but I really like the potential of the product IF specified for suitable situations.

 

[CES Heating]

I've started to look into this technology. I would be interested in know how they would perform in hard weather up here in Scotland. Personally I'm sceptical of the claims that they perform in all weathers 24/7. How can that be when even the best heat pumps (which these are) require defrost cycles.

 

[CES Heating]

Oh and just thought I would mention there are a few companies selling units like this up here. Customer of mine had a quote for £22K.!! and was guaranteed the RHI. Some people have no shame.

 

[Danlow84]

No way would i pay 22k the single panel system starts at about 5k and your right they stop working if temp drops below -15 but apart from that they do work day and nite in any weather condition would be happy to give you more information if required

 

[Gavin A]

Oh and just thought I would mention there are a few companies selling units like this up here. Customer of mine had a quote for £22K.!! and was guaranteed the RHI. Some people have no shame.

trading standards job that IMO.

 

[Danlow84]

True gavin just because not a lot of people havr heard about them some companiea think they can charge the world

 

[snowhead]

No way would i pay 22k the single panel system starts at about 5k and your right they stop working if temp drops below -15 but apart from that they do work day and nite in any weather condition would be happy to give you more information if required

Do they work at full output down to -15 and cut off, or start degrading from 0 or higher?

 

[jason121]

So if MCS class them has a heat pump, they won’t be eligible for the RHI because they cannot be used for space heating