Thoughts about early 1960's wiring methods .... please

[Octopus]

All,

Just got in from fault finding a house with a RCD tripping issue ....... it clear cut which circuit is the problem as its almost a dead short L-E

The issue is more about understanding the installation methods used around 1960 ..... the end to end readings for the live and neutral are around 0.15 so that suggests a very short ring - but the ring serves nearly all the sockets in the older part of the house .....

When looking to split the ring, early all the sockets are either 1 cable or 1 old cable and 1 newer cable (and then a socket with the newer cable is close by) which suggests that I'm going to have to start lifting floorboards.........

So my question is was there any "standard" way of achieving such a circuit ... which would make locating the junction boxes easier?

I think I can spot all the "original" sockets as they are just above the skirting board ......

There was 1 point I couldn't access:

This is the immersion switch , on the same circuit, completely covered by the megaflow tank installed about 7 years ago .................. Mr Wet Pants - why didn't you relocate the switch to the right?

 

[Devonchris]

My wife has rewired the house.
Jamaica?
No, she did it herself.

 

[telectrix]

The occasional off topic quote makes this Forum the best ever perhaps we should have a "spoilsport" button instead? Sorry for the double post "sausage fingers again" Admin can you remove one please? don't want to get accused of building up my post count.

and i just thought you had a staaammmer.

 

[Doomed]

these guys did it:

This was a cover of a Mighty Diamonds song.

Music nerd fest over.

 

[ruston]

Admin could start inserting this at the precise post where the thread became derailed

Tony had one similar to that on another site..

 

[MDJ]

Not heard that one before. Do you know why they were called that ?

I think it was due to Jamaican sparks who came over in the early sixties Andy, they did the spider ring as most know it and the name stuck with the sparks from that generation around here, as I worked with lots of sparks who were around at that time it just passed around this area and it has just been called that.

 

[telectrix]

have some recollection of the time. out of the cable that was saved, the jamaican sparks made their wives bracelets.

 

[PEG]

have some recollection of the time. out of the cable that was saved, the jamaican sparks made their wives bracelets.

Just goes to show,there is nothing new under the sun.

My pal was quite involved,with BT's cable extraction teams,a few years back,having done a lot of cable and fibre work,over the years.

He had an extensive diary,of redundant cables,runs,access,etc...

He had a meeting booked,with the extraction team,BT's extraction supervisors,and the police team,which were working with BT,on marking/identifying equipment,allegedly in conjunction with the representatives of our recycling community.

I asked if the meeting,was the ideal situation to be wearing his enormous,copper carrick-weave bracelet...

"....i never thought about it...." he replied

 

[jcs8215248]

Have seen that type of 'ring' in a lot of ex local authority properties i have been involved in rewiring. It always seemed to me the old council houses were always well built and have lasted well. These new modern houses after 10 years they are often in need of rufurbishment.

I moved into a council property around 1952. This was a newly built shop on a council estate. A year or so later (I must have been aged 12 or 13 at the time) my mother received a severe electric shock from a faulty fridge (live to earth short).

I unscrewed the socket and found that the wiring was run in steel conduit but there was no earth wire. The only earthing was via the mounting screw to the conduit box and the resistance I measured from conduit to earth was many hundreds of ohms. All sockets on this ring main were the same. the upper (bedroom) floor did have an earth wire.

Was this well built! I told my (non technical) father that this was dangerous but as far as I know he never reported it to the council.

 

[jcs8215248]

Have seen that type of 'ring' in a lot of ex local authority properties i have been involved in rewiring. It always seemed to me the old council houses were always well built and have lasted well. These new modern houses after 10 years they are often in need of rufurbishment.

I moved into a council property around 1952. This was a newly built shop on a council estate. A year or so later (I must have been aged 12 or 13 at the time) my mother received a severe electric shock from a faulty fridge (live to earth short).

I unscrewed the socket and found that the wiring was run in steel conduit but there was no earth wire. The only earthing was via the mounting screw to the conduit box and the resistance I measured from conduit to earth was many hundreds of ohms. All sockets on this ring main were the same. the upper (bedroom) floor did have an earth wire.

Was this well built! I told my (non technical) father that this was dangerous but as far as I know he never reported it to the council.

 

[1Justin]

Yep, ex council properties. I worked on one recently where the source was most definitely a "ring" but 80% of the sockets were individual spurs with all the JB's hidden and inaccessible. Horrible to fault find.

 

[Octopus]

UPDATE: (and back on track I hope )

Been back today ................. did some more tests, took more sockets off the walls, looked for the 1960's cables then started lifting floor boards :



I located a junction box, tucked between 2 joists, under a wall (terrible access) where 4 cables were joined (all stranded 1960/early 70's)

Disconnected the 4 cables from the JB, problem tracked to a spur down to the socket below.

So it is a very small ring with 2 or 3 junction boxes, then spurs on spurs to add sockets and fused spurs.......

Going back on Thursday to take this circuit off the "shared" RCD, and put it on a 20A RCBO, so if this happens again, they won't lose all the socket circuits.

I've also located 2 sockets which are connected to the downstairs lighting circuit ........................ the joys of bob the builder and Dave the DIYer.

Thanks for all the contributions .....

 

[Pete999]

View attachment 41634

UPDATE: (and back on track I hope )

Been back today ................. did some more tests, took more sockets off the walls, looked for the 1960's cables then started lifting floor boards :



I located a junction box, tucked between 2 joists, under a wall (terrible access) where 4 cables were joined (all stranded 1960/early 70's)

Disconnected the 4 cables from the JB, problem tracked to a spur down to the socket below.

So it is a very small ring with 2 or 3 junction boxes, then spurs on spurs to add sockets and fused spurs.......

Going back on Thursday to take this circuit off the "shared" RCD, and put it on a 20A RCBO, so if this happens again, they won't lose all the socket circuits.

I've also located 2 sockets which are connected to the downstairs lighting circuit ........................ the joys of bob the builder and Dave the DIYer.

Thanks for all the contributions .....

Now that's a proper JB

 

[Octopus]

Now that's a proper JB

what you see in the picture is what I saw first ............... no cover!