Thread made for the snobby stuck up sparks on here

D

daiplayer

This thread is specifically made for the members on here that are only here to shoot down new guys, hurl snide abuse from afar , and basically dont want any new electricians in the world cos they think they are god gift.

Too many times have we seen new members abused and disheartened by these guys .

So heres a specific thread for you all to have a good moan .
 
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UNG said:
It might be for some just depends what sector you work in
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Doh! walked into that one. OK aprt from electrical contracting, rocket science division, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Apart from the roads, sanitation, democracy etc etc

Yours electrically,

The Popular Peoples Front of electrical contracting (aka - SPLITTER)
 
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SPARTYKUS said:
Hello Morph

If I have behaved in an unacceptable manner towards you I most humbly apologize :6:


Remind me what the question was? Unless you've sent me a scorching message!
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LOL
ticks in boxes !! that form
for your info you can use the typwriter tool but it dont have ticks ....you get me now ..
..soon they are doing an overwritable one with ticks included ;-)
will keep you posted :tongue3:
 
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UNG said:
Why should people expect answers to questions that should be basic knowledge or show a lack of basic and / or underpinning knowledge. The apprentice system was a one to one mentoring and supervision system where mistakes could be seen and corrected as the job continued a forum does not allow that. I am waiting for an incident to occur where a forum answer is cited as the reason why it happened. May be those asking the questions need to accept their questions won't be answered or will receive a hostile response if the the more experienced feel they are out of their depth or need supervision to complete the task

Having spent a lot of my apprenticeship in industry in my 2nd year I was sent out and left to my own devices to find faults I was told find the fault report back and a spark would check I was right it was tough learning with no forums to post questions but made me a better spark. Nowadays people seem even too busy to google the question and find it easier to post here and expect someone else to do their legwork



And your comment sounds so arrogant to someone who has spent a lifetime gathering the knowledge

Asking questions is not the only way of learning if it ain't working take it apart and work out why, knowledge is built by discovering something new all the time if you work to gain knowledge it sticks more that just posting a quick question



I've made many mistakes in the quest of learning I was taught explore and exhaust all avenues and if your totally stumped ask questions. There has never been a better time to learn with all the resources available it just appears that some only want to use one and want it all on a plate




The confidence beyond knowledge that some have is potentially a disaster waiting to happen, some of the questions asked can put the seasoned professional between a rock and a hard place they are damned if they do damned if they don't answer the question and if the questioner doesn't get the answer they want they see it as acrimonious and confrontational which the OP has chosen to term snobby and stuck up when it actually is the person that posts the question needs to remove their head from a dark place and have a reality check

Hasty replies can be a problem but so can a question that lacks pertinent information. While answering questions if the original information is incomplete how can any one expect to get an answer or does that show as a lack of experience and someone who is in way over their head


There is never going to be a definitive solution to this issue until the electrical industry and government gets it's act together and having created the quick courses it manages and sets standards that have to be achieved in other words raise the bar to where it was before they came on the scene. the 70's and 80's Skill Centre sparks were not the best but were a lot better than what the 5 week courses appear to turn out
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You couldn't be further from the truth when you say there hasn't been a better time to learn, now is possibly the worst time to learn.

I out myself through college and then went out to try and find work when I was we'll enough to do so, I've spent weeks and weeks with my head burried in books and did very well in my exams but there is no substitute for on site experience and that's where it's difficult these days, nobody wants to spend their time showing people how to do things because it costs them money, and then you be the sparks who refuse to share their knowledge because they feel threatened and think they may lose their job to the younger lad who will work for less if he gets better.

I spend hours reading through posts on here and not posting all too often as I'm just looking to get knowledge about other areas that I don't get the chance to work in because at the moment we work where we can and unfortunately all that's out there is big industrial work because the one man band can no longer afford to have an apprentice or even a par qualified improver looking for the experience.

I agree people should try to gain the knowledge and the way you talk about being fought, bein thrown into jobs and left to it is brilliant but you find me a company that's happy to do that these day, it's all about the ££££££££ to them and time is money so why should they teach you.
It's wrong but since I've been working on sites that's the exact attitude I've encountered from nearly every company so I've had to throw myself in at the deep end and work through agencies on big sites and learning as I go.
 
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in Tonys defence

recently we disagreed over coding and he was about the only one who debated in a mature manner without acting like a child and being sacastic, we never agreed and it did nt matter
 
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Thanks for that Morph, but if someone wants to have a pop at me I’ll defend myself.

The thought is appreciated though.
 
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vernam616 said:
Interesting thread
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More like a lot of Tosh to pacify egos who should be mature and professional enough to accept they need to get their acts together with regards to the information they supply in order to gain knowledge from this forum. I have said this before we are here to help each other but anybody with an attitude or a chip on their shoulder should not bother with this forum the same clowns will get 10 times as bad in the site cabin from guys who are not even sparks so my advise is buckle up and grow up because this aint playschool and I am not talking about bullying or swearing and it could be me but we are getting more sensitive souls who come on the forum and get upset when someone says get your act together and supply more info or try and lead them to the answer not because they are taking the **** but because they are trying to get them to think for themselves .

So hears the deal you want to be an electrician then start showing respect and dont go bubbling because you are not getting your own way I for one have stopped giving info the what I see as chancers who repeatedly come on the forum because they cannot be bothered to find out the answer themselves
 
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I havnt replied to this thread because many people probs can guess my view as ive aired in other threads

I too have all the time in the world to help someone, aslong as they HELP theirselves.

It makes me very irate to read a thread started by a "Fully qualified electrician, who is taking money from people for the privellige" to come on here and ask us lot how to complete his/her job in hand, when 9/10 the answer is so basic and staring them in the face.

They then become all upset that people have tore into them, and thus resulting in a thread just like this one.

So just to reiterate, im not snobby or stuck up and do have a lot of time for genuine people, lets face it we are all human and like others have said we are still learning every single day

OP - You should maybe have called a friend/family for sympathy............... because you sure as S**te are NOT going to get it here
 
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If I walked into an Office or went on an Office based forum, said I was working as a Temp P.A for an Agency and asked where the Capital letters are on a keyboard, I'm sure I'd get a dignified and well mannered response,,NOT.

BuT if I sed I wuzz lurning to tipe und kneeded heLp wiht thu kayboerd layout I'm sure I'd get a far warmer response.

Also when your standing infront of someone it's far easier to make a judgement as to whether they are a schoolperson, apprentice, mature learner or straight forward idiot and adjust the tone of your answers than it is to try and guess just from the content of a first post.

And if anyone gives me any abuse about this I'm not going to reply to it..........
 
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snowhead said:
If I walked into an Office or went on an Office based forum, said I was working as a Temp P.A for an Agency and asked where the Capital letters are on a keyboard, I'm sure I'd get a dignified and well mannered response,,NOT.

BuT if I sed I wuzz lurning to tipe und kneeded heLp wiht thu kayboerd layout I'm sure I'd get a far warmer response.

Also when your standing infront of someone it's far easier to make a judgement as to whether they are a schoolperson, apprentice, mature learner or straight forward idiot and adjust the tone of your answers than it is to try and guess just from the content of a first post.

And if anyone gives me any abuse about this I'm not going to reply to it..........
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:prrr: take that then.
Seriously though, I'm getting bored banging my head against the same brick wall. The 'confidence without knowledge' factor, leading to danger, just keeps on recurring.
 
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Rats! I gave extra time on this thread to see some of the nasty comments by the guys who hurl stuff. I think I must have missed them, or they didn't respond yet. That being said, I agree with the concept that the forum is also a good place to learn some new methods or information etc. Sometimes dumb questions need to asked . . . and sometimes you even get dumb answers. I like it when everyone joins in with their opinions. Sometimes they are good and valuable to the person asking questions. Occasionally that is not the case. Who was it that said "there is no such thing as a dumb question"? I think it was all of my instructors at college and as I recall I think it was also my boss not so long ago. We all have dumb questions when they are given to those who have vast experience. I consider myself fortunate that I can ask them and those that answer should consider themselves fortunate that they can pass on knowledge.
 
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Goldwing said:
We all have dumb questions.
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No one minds the questions mate it's the manner in which they are asked that gets people annoyed, an example for you- I recieved a PM the other day from a member who was installing a shower and was asking me if his RCD operating times were acceptable. Grudgingly I gave the answer because somewhere there was a client needing this job complete but I objected strongly to it because A)Presumably the shower is notifiable work B) The information is available in many different publications, all of which any self respecting electrician should own and C) If he does not own these publications he cannot be a member of a competent person's scheme and is probably not going to notify it as required by law.
As you say in your closing sentence, I am glad that the forum exists and I can pass on knowledge to help others but I do not want to spoon feed information to incompetents or do student's homework for them. I never gave my own children the answers for their homework I pushed them in the right direction so they would find them for themselves.
 
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Trev I agree you cannot play at electricians but £15 for an onsite guide is no big deal and also learn how to read it but as said before the same guy will pay £300 for a smart phone or over £500 for the new I phone now that to me is selfish .

I do repairs on rentals and the tenant was bitching that being a single parent was not easy but there she was sitting their puffing away and replying to texts from the absent father of the 2 kids. She also highlighted that my phone was pretty naff and that she had the latest model and contract her face was a picture when I said I could not afford it
 
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Lucas said:
The sparks that irritate me on this forum are the ones who think they are above every trade and resfuse to admit they are wrong.

EG getting a kitchen plan and putting wire's right where a unit fixing is and then screamin "BUT IT'S A SAFE ZONE". It's obviosly not if you knew fixing's were going there!
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aye....or putting FCUs in a cupboard where they KNEW there was going to be one of those twirly fold out basket thingys going there.....not accessable....
 
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trev said:
No one minds the questions mate it's the manner in which they are asked that gets people annoyed, an example for you- I recieved a PM the other day from a member who was installing a shower and was asking me if his RCD operating times were acceptable. Grudgingly I gave the answer because somewhere there was a client needing this job complete but I objected strongly to it because A)Presumably the shower is notifiable work B) The information is available in many different publications, all of which any self respecting electrician should own and C) If he does not own these publications he cannot be a member of a competent person's scheme and is probably not going to notify it as required by law.
As you say in your closing sentence, I am glad that the forum exists and I can pass on knowledge to help others but I do not want to spoon feed information to incompetents or do student's homework for them. I never gave my own children the answers for their homework I pushed them in the right direction so they would find them for themselves.
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Trev,
ive noticed recently the forum is getting alot of newly trained electricians on here some time served and others 5weeks time served lol
i have noticed too some members have dissapeared or they dont spend as much time offering advice eg, (topcat) because of the questions coming through these questions would be asked in the 12months time served at college instead they are being asked in 5weeks
now im not against these people re training as i retrained 13 years ago but im time served and the quick route through isnt an option as the knowledge isnot there to work in peoples houses.
there should be an E petition for the quick courses stop these cashing in on people who willingly pay for these short courses.
 
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Sedgy I agree these training centres are selling a dream but also if someone wants to train up fine but they must commit themselves to the task in hand although sadly some end up getting lazy because a guy is willing to help and yes topcat has went missing and I also have got fed up trying to wade in on a debate hence why I have turned my input down not because I am trying to be nasty but the individual needs to approuch the job in a professional manner
 
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Well i did suggest a little while ago, that the newly trained and trainee's, should have a Forum title of their own!! All that got was mainly flack... lol!!!
 
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SPARTYKUS said:
You mean like the canteens at Police Stations, time served Police Officers in the main, then a table in the corner for the PCSO's .......
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Why not? When I was an apprentice, on the big jobs we were not allowed in the same cabin as the time served guys. That had to be earned by getting qualified
 
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trev said:
Why not? When I was an apprentice, on the big jobs we were not allowed in the same cabin as the time served guys. That had to be earned by getting qualified
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I know, it was common place. Until the 90's (for example) in the Gas Board there were still separate canteens for the "Officers" and a canteen for Graded staff and the engineers, etc.

'Officer' was just a grading, it meant nothing really except you got paid a bit more and maybe supervised more, but they had a separate canteen! Like on a ship!!!!
 
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SPARTYKUS said:
I know, it was common place. Until the 90's (for example) in the Gas Board there were still separate canteens for the "Officers" and a canteen for Graded staff and the engineers, etc.

'Officer' was just a grading, it meant nothing really except you got paid a bit more and maybe supervised more, but they had a separate canteen! Like on a ship!!!!
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I did mine so long ago,I used to stand outside the pit canteen with a bowl :drool5::biggrin:
 
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I'll always remember being a 17year old apprentice at the pit and asking a few 'control circuit' questions when the men were arguing about Saturdays footy match.

They all used to stop and get the wiring diagrams out.............:dozey:
 
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Royal navy was the same. I was not allowed to be in the mess with other lads until I passed nearly 7 different exams and oral boards. Then I was still considered the lowest and had to earn respect of the crew by washing up and making tea / coffee.

In the engine room I had to sit on the floor rather than seats near the water boiler.

It's some thing I'm glad I did!!!
 
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DurhamSparky said:
Royal navy was the same. I was not allowed to be in the mess with other lads until I passed nearly 7 different exams and oral boards. Then I was still considered the lowest and had to earn respect of the crew by washing up and making tea / coffee.

In the engine room I had to sit on the floor rather than seats near the water boiler.

It's some thing I'm glad I did!!!
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Sorry to rub it in but working on refits in Rosyth i had access to all areas......lol
 
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