Tier 4

[DPG]

You're wrong again... sorry. There are several different 'flavours' of tests... some better than others. But even the worst ones (the 'flow' type I think, like a pregnancy test) are far more accurate than that. But the accuracy is each way... so some tests fail to pick up the virus and they can give a false positive. It's complicated I know...

And of course, the test merely shows the immediate 'as of now' situation... so it might show as being negative on a Monday, but by Tuesday a moron in a mask shopper in Lidl might have passed it on to you !

Absolutely. Tests for most diseases will result in a number of false positives and false negatives. There is no such thing as a perfect test. If you use your logic (selfmade) then testing for any disease is a waste of time.

 

[7029 dave]

Those poor lorry drivers stuck in Kent, now that IMO is political, the French are just using covid as a smoke screen.

 

[littlespark]

I believe the tests are biased toward a false positive. Better that than a positive case thinking they are negative and spreading it without knowing.

As for the belief it’s man made? I don’t buy that. Viruses can evolve from something that cannot affect you into something like this. Technology now can detect these viruses much better than we used to, we’ve possibly been living through pandemic after pandemic without knowing it.

And to blame China is like blaming Henry Ford for every car accident.

 

[Zerax]

Those poor lorry drivers stuck in Kent, now that IMO is political, the French are just using covid as a smoke screen.

I agree... I think Napoleon is just trying to show us who's in control ! The arrival of this new mutant strain was pure luck for him !

I'm hoping that somehow, post Brexit we move all ferry traffic up to Holland... to stop him doing the same thing again.

Didn't Spain use a similar tactic a while ago when we told them (for the umpteenth time !) that Gibraltar was British and they should stop banging on about it...

 

[littlespark]

France blocking the ports isn’t new. Swine flu, mad cow, industrial strike action.... or just because they gosh darn felt like it.

 

[Zerax]

France blocking the ports isn’t new. Swine flu, mad cow, industrial strike action.... or just because they gosh darn felt like it.

Hence the expression "the revolting French" ?

 

[Strima]

Absolutely correct. And nor has anyone I've spoken to.

One family member dead and a mate spent 33 days in ICU, got out in May and is still in rehab now. Admittedly both had underlying conditions but it's still a nasty virus the way it attacks your body.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one but I can see merits and faults in both sides of the arguement.

 

[Selfmade]

One family member dead and a mate spent 33 days in ICU, got out in May and is still in rehab now. Admittedly both had underlying conditions but it's still a nasty virus the way it attacks your body.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one but I can see merits and faults in both sides of the arguement.

So sorry for your loss Strima. That is really sad. But I'm also glad you can still take an objective view of it, unlike so many. Of course some are dying. Maybe even slightly more than from regular flu. But it's a sliding scale - where on that scale do we decide suddenly that we have to shut everything down? How can we ignore the people dying from starvation in developing countries because their income from tourism has been cut off? Or those in this country dying because their operations were cancelled when the NHS was changed to the National Covid Service? Or those committing suicide because they have lost everything and see no way forward? Or those trapped indoors with domestic abusers? Or those who face decades of poverty because they have lost jobs or businesses? And I will never believe that the government has the prerogative to impose all this on people, especially when there are so many experts saying the cure is far, far worse than the illness. Why couldn't they just encourage and support those who were vulnerable to (voluntarily) self-isolate?

 

[Midwest]

Personally I believe and accept that this a nasty virus, that we should all take the governments advice and guidance on (via SAGE), social distancing, masks, testing etc etc.

I work in a Care Home, and we have been very lucky, with very few Covid related deaths. However, there are many other Care Homes that have not been so fortunate. We take various precautions, 'cos once it gets in, we could be one of those unfortunate places.

It does dismay me though, when I see people not following the guidance, and the way some people perceive the threat.

We have many visiting contractors, for essential works. We generally require a recent negative Covid test result, but thats not always possible. They have to sign various disclosures and confirmations, and have their temperatures taken.

Restrictions have eased in recent weeks, as to what is essential or not. Had one in today to work on a kitchen appliance. I asked if he has a recent negative test. No he replied. I said ok sign these forms and I will take your skin temperature.

'I haven't got Covid', he said.

'How do you know, if you haven't had a recent test?' I said.

'I would know, if I had Covid, I wouldn't be here, if I had it'.

'But how do you know, if you have not got Covid, without having had a recent test; have you not heard of being asymptomatic?'. No reply, thick idiot.

 

[DPG]

So sorry for your loss Strima. That is really sad. But I'm also glad you can still take an objective view of it, unlike so many. Of course some are dying. Maybe even slightly more than from regular flu. But it's a sliding scale - where on that scale do we decide suddenly that we have to shut everything down? How can we ignore the people dying from starvation in developing countries because their income from tourism has been cut off? Or those in this country dying because their operations were cancelled when the NHS was changed to the National Covid Service? Or those committing suicide because they have lost everything and see no way forward? Or those trapped indoors with domestic abusers? Or those who face decades of poverty because they have lost jobs or businesses? And I will never believe that the government has the prerogative to impose all this on people, especially when there are so many experts saying the cure is far, far worse than the illness. Why couldn't they just encourage and support those who were vulnerable to (voluntarily) self-isolate?

But it's not just the government. The opposition mostly agree, as do the devolved UK territories. And as do most other countries. Not sure why you concentrate on it being something the Tory government is doing.

 

[Midwest]

So sorry for your loss Strima. That is really sad. But I'm also glad you can still take an objective view of it, unlike so many. Of course some are dying. Maybe even slightly more than from regular flu. But it's a sliding scale - where on that scale do we decide suddenly that we have to shut everything down? How can we ignore the people dying from starvation in developing countries because their income from tourism has been cut off? Or those in this country dying because their operations were cancelled when the NHS was changed to the National Covid Service? Or those committing suicide because they have lost everything and see no way forward? Or those trapped indoors with domestic abusers? Or those who face decades of poverty because they have lost jobs or businesses? And I will never believe that the government has the prerogative to impose all this on people, especially when there are so many experts saying the cure is far, far worse than the illness. Why couldn't they just encourage and support those who were vulnerable to (voluntarily) self-isolate?

I haven't looked at the figures recently, or discussed this argument much. And I have no medical background to throw into this discussion.

However, I read somewhere back in the beginning, that on an average flu year, we have around 7000ish flu related deaths. In a bad year, it can be as much as 20,000-30,000ish.

The UK has figures for Covid at around 70,000. Thats with us being in lockdowns and other restrictions, that doesn't happen in a flu season. So it does look at Covid being something more dangerous than flu, IMO.

 

[Selfmade]

But it's not just the government. The opposition mostly agree, as do the devolved UK territories. And as do most other countries. Not sure why you concentrate on it being something the Tory government is doing.

Just to clarify - I mean state by government in this instance - to include civil service and whoever is pulling the strings - not government in a party politics sense.

 

[Selfmade]

I haven't looked at the figures recently, or discussed this argument much. And I have no medical background to throw into this discussion.

However, I read somewhere back in the beginning, that on an average flu year, we have around 7000ish flu related deaths. In a bad year, it can be as much as 20,000-30,000ish.

The UK has figures for Covid at around 70,000. Thats with us being in lockdowns and other restrictions, that doesn't happen in a flu season. So it does look at Covid being something more dangerous than flu, IMO.

But there are so many problems with these figures. For example, anyone who was admitted to hospital and tested positive and then died was put down as a covid death - even if they died from a heart attack or injuries sustained in a car accident. And it seems no-one is dying from flu this year. Why is that? Put down as covid deaths, that's why.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I think the stats are largely irrelevant, we have a fixed capacity of ICU beds and ICU nurses. It does not matter what illness brings a patient to an ICU bed. Covid means a proportion who catch it need hospital treatment and a smaller proportion need ICU, i don't believe this is a disputed fact.

Once we run out of ICU beds / nurses... whats the plan for those who dont agree with the government's approach ? Just shrug shoulders and let them die ??

I do find this a really strange discussion but i guess everyone is free to give an opinion.

 

[DPG]

So, do I listen to the vast majority of medical experts of many different countries, or do I listen to some random people who seem to think they know better for some reason?

Maybe I should start listening to Piers Corbyn and his anti mask protest meetings? Maybe I should listen to a minority of people who seem to think this is all an government plan to control us?

Mmm, let me think.