To Fit Export Meter or Not ?

[SibertSolar]

Fair comment Worcester, completely understand where you are coming from. I think a certain degree of "consumer education" is necessary, as always. This will undoubtedly involve some form of usage monitoring and evaluation so 3rd party datalogging/monitoring software might be handy, or something of that ilk anyway.

Ultimately, who decides how the DNO adheres (or not) to the FiT scheme in terms of monitoring and rebate structure/payment etc? I would expect it to be consumer driven (or perhaps installer driven?) but perhaps that isn't the case?

 

[SibertSolar]

Hi all,

Further to my info about import/export meters being fitted in the "secondary generation meter" position (between the inverter AC output and the CU) I now have final clarification from Landis & Gyr as to how their 5235 Import/Export meter is intended to be installed and used.

Firstly, my embarrassed apologies for any confusion - I've had numerous discussions with L&G directly about this and it seems that the most recent advice I provided is in fact incorrect. Following conversations with Worcester and others, I decided to try to get to the bottom of this once and for all.

Bottom line - an import/export meter fitted as a secondary meter will NOT be able to measure your exported energy OR the amount of your generated energy that the client consumes. It will ONLY be able to measure the generated energy from the PV installation.

The intention is that the import/export configured 5235 meter is to be fitted as a primary meter in order to measure the reverse energy sent back to the DNO/Grid. The secondary generation meter only needs to be an "import-only" meter (standard 5235A or 5235B - or any other meter such as the A100C configured for import-only kWh measurement) but, when combined with an import/export meter in the primary meter position, all necessary measurements can be taken to achieve the total generation tariff AND the export generation tariff.

I have a client whose installer replaced their primary meter with our 5235 import/export meter and fitted a standard 5235B import-only meter in the secondary generation position (measuring total generation from the PV installation). Their DNO now receives total generation data as well as import (from the DNO) and export (to the DNO) data. The client now avails of 100% of the generation tariff as well as the additional 3p/kWh for the export tariff. They are currently not consuming more than 50% of their total generated kWh.

Incidently, when this client spoke to his DNO and told them he wanted a primary Import/Export meter fitted, they said they do not replace for systems under 50kWhp. When asked if he could have one fitted by his installer/qualified electrician, they said to go ahead and send back the old meter.

I'm in the process of updating our website product info now, apologies again for the confusion caused by L&G providing conflicting info.

The issue still remains with regards to monitoring/tracking typical energy usage to decide whether going down the "export tariff" route will be economically beneficial to specific clients but, as far as I can see, most domestic installations where the client property is generating much more than being used during the day, total generation tariff combined with export tariff "should" be a more attractive option than simply 50% paid against total generation.

Lastly, a double-pack of import-only and import/export 5235 meters (to cover secondary and primary meter install positions) will be something that we will promote to installers at a promotional price of around £40 depending on volumes - just so you are aware of likely costs.

Any advice/comments welcome,

Andy

 

[SibertSolar]

@goodjiya - was it fitted in place of your existing primary meter (utility meter)? If yes, did the DNO replace it or did they allow your installer to do it themselves?

Thanks

Andy

 

[strattp]

I had Solar PV installed back in May this year, and the meter has been running backwards right from day one.

My electric supplier is British Gas and they are also my feed-in tariff company.

I had to supply a meter reading last week and the reading was 435kWh less then the meter reading in May (which was read by a meter reader on the day before the installation of Solar PV).

Upto date I can't get any sensible response from British Gas, I have three phone conversations with them and also contacted via the web.)

I ended up contacting the meter dept at British Gas who still thought that the meter must be faulty if it was running backwards.

They arranged for the meter to be replaced, but when the guy turned up today, he checked with his manager and was told to not to replace it with a digital meter as that could cause problems, but he is going to look into it further.

My problem is the way British Gas have interpreted the latest meter reading, instead of a negative amount, the system has determined the meter must have gone round the clock and the calculated amount is over 99,000 kWh.

What do think the best solution is?

Are the very latest Smart meters suitable for Solar PV installations?

 

[SolarCity]

My problem is the way British Gas have interpreted the latest meter reading, instead of a negative amount, the system has determined the meter must have gone round the clock and the calculated amount is over 99,000 kWh.

99,000kWh! I bet you can't wait for your £14,000 leccy bill!

The meter is British Gas's concern. If the reading is clearly not accurate then I don't see how they bill you anything.

 

[TedM]

Tell BG that they are in contravention of the Electrical Safety Quality and Continuity Regulations* and that if they do not sort it within 14 days to your complete satisfaction that you will have no other option than to report them to OFGEM and the Energy Ombudsman.

There are some SmartMeters currently being installed that are not capable of handling reverse energy (as your export would be). This is nothing short of madness.

A normal digital meter with a ratchet to prevent logging of reverse energy would be the normal solution.

* ESQCRs - regulation 3 and 24. The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002

 

[strattp]

Thanks TedM.

I have informed British Gas.

I await their response.

 

[Worcester]

Reactiviting an old thread!

Just had one of my commercial clients on the phone, seems that E-ON want to charge him £1000 / year for the pleasure of an export meter.

He'd need to be export in excess of 32,000 kWh to make that back, and his systems size they won't 'deem' it.

Anyone else had this challenge and how did you get around it?

 

[SolarCity]

That seems a bit strange. Surely they need to justify that price and I'd be surprised how they plan on doing so.

 

[TedM]

Is that for a half-hourly meter? Presume it must be. £250-500 is a normal annual charge for a HH import meter. No reason for an export version to be any different.

Get quotes from other suppliers.

 

[JD6400]

Is that for a half-hourly meter? Presume it must be. £250-500 is a normal annual charge for a HH import meter. No reason for an export version to be any different.

Get quotes from other suppliers.

Uk power networks are around £380 a year , and being as well you are opening a new contract and now buying as a half hourly customer they will be looking at a large uplift on what you pay per imported unit for the first year until they have some relevant figures to work with !!!

 

[TedM]

Any sizeable company can keep all its meter contracts separate from the supply (or FiTs) side of things. And just because you need a HH meter for export (over 30kW) that should be no reason to need a HH meter on the import side.

But it is a long time since I was closely involved with all this when I worked for the London Electricity 100kW Team.

 

[JD6400]

Hi Ted

Thanks for the response , could you shed a little more light on this .
We currently have several clients waiting for a import / export meter as this is how they have been advised to go instead of just a separate export meter , it has been a very drawn out and some what frustrating process to date !

 

[TedM]

An owner is free to enter into a contractual arrangement with their own selected meter operator. They are not restricted to using whatever the supplier wants to impose on them. But these services don't come cheap so will only be economically viable for medium to large scale systems.

You can get some more details and find links to potential suppliers at Association of Meter Operators

A couple worth a closer look are New Energy Solutions | Bglobal Metering and UPL - Feed In Tariff

 

[JD6400]

As always Ted , you astound me with your knowledge base !

Thank you