Tonight should be fun ! | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Tonight should be fun ! in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

MCS Renewables

One of my neighbours is having a solar presentation tonight at 5pm with a certain national window company.
I am sitting in and will let you know.

The first rule of war is know thy enemy....
 
It will be interesting to see what happens tonight, you never know they may surprise you with an honest, REAL compliant sales presentation.
 
I'm sure system will start at £30k, then rep will be on the phone to his manager for a 50% reduction, products change but hard sell techniques remain the same.
 
here goes :-
A Mr Hikmet ***** of ****** windows turned up at my neighbours to present a solar PV presentation to us. Mr ****** is a late middle aged Turkish gentleman I would score five out of ten for technical knowledge. I never let on I was an installer. He was with us for two hours.
******** only fit Mitsubishi 185 modules and inverters which he claims are made by "platinum" for ******* but what we would call Diehl.
He never looked at the mains board, the earthing system or even stuck his head in the loftspace all of this is done by a surveyor approximately two weeks after we sign.
He used his i phone to assertain compass direction and informed my neighbour that he would only get twelve panels on a clear roof space 10m x 3.5m with no shading but facing directly East. He did mention that he could East West split the system at additional cost.
He said Anglian always mount the inverters in the loft space and the only item downstairs was the meter and isolation point.
We watched two videos starring George Clark and one of them showed the information board on the front of the Diehl inverter but failed to mention it is unusable if stuck away in a hot loft. The Diehl 3100 s shown is an inverter with integral transformer and will run hot and clearly states in section 14 of the installers manual that operation is affected if installed above 45 degrees. Section 1 of the manual warns of installing in dusty areas so a hot roof space with fibreglass did not seem ideal but I did not tell him. I also thought that they could have used the 2800S for 12 x 185 watts.

To be fair he was not as hard sell as I thought he would be, but he give some misleading information which would make some people feel pressured.
He claims that the FIT rate is going to drop later this year and according to the Guardian (7th Feb 2011) article he produced it is under review at the moment. I was not allowed to read the article but I think it was more about the rate dropping for solar farms and not the domestic market.
He also told some big fibs about returns as he claims 10 x 185 panels in Sheffield on a S facing roof would provide over £1000 a year which niether of my solar predicton packages can get anywhere near, however someone on here may have other information.
He claimed ****** is a blue chip company and started in Solar in July 2010 and that independants were a waste of time and we were all fly boys who would disappear when the renewables bubbles bursts. He said they had specialist contractors not subbies.

His bottom line prices were as follows :-( All Mitsubishi 185 modules with Diehl inverters)

6 modules at 1.1kW is £11,000 (alleged FITS income over £32K over 25years !!)
12 modules at 2.2kW at £16,165
16 modules at 2.9kW at £21,000
No prices above 3kW.
East - West split extra cost of £1500 (assume additional inverter)
I have a list of other add on costs

solar thermal fitted between £8K and £9K, flat plate

Being as we can install a 3.84kW Sanyo HIT 240 system with Sunny boy 4000 TL twin mppt with sunny boy remote for similar money to the 12 Mitsubishi modules price above I feel that the ******** "blue chip" company is a complete rip off. The solar thermal is also about £2-3K overpriced.

Unfortunately he claims to visit four homes a day and get at least one sale which is disturbing to say the least. He was ten minutes late because he visited another property in the same road and was daft enough to tell me the house number. Needless to say I went to see them last night as well , which is sort of payment for my post !

To sum up if you are an installer this may be of some interest and if you are a consumer please get quotes from local MCS companies who are not WINDOW fitters. Alternatively if you want to pay twice what you should for some average modules please feel free to contact Mr Oglakci on ***** ****** or ******************** .

They also offer a £500 deposit loan scheme with interest at 10% PA which IMO with their pricing would make PV a non starter.

However they outsell me! :)
 
I'm not sure if this should have been posted on an open forum as your sailing awfully close to the wind here gentleman. I'm not sure what is happening in todays industry, but I don't think I have ever done somethnig like this, in fact perhaps i'm harking back to bygone salad days here, but I would have no problems helping out another electrical contrator rather than setting up a sting.

What I can read of this, the guy wasn't pressuriszing you into a sale. and apart from the "mis-calculations" on the yield, which after all is just guess work in all cases really, the only real problem maybe the equipment he uses, and again that is down to semantics.

His price is his, and if he gets business then more power to him, in todays savvy world I'm not sure anyone would accept just the one quote, perhaps some customers want to pay that little extra to deal with a well known company. Again is he wrong to point out that as a long established company, there is a better chance of them still being in the market place 5 years down the road then perhaps a sole trader.

It seems that the new PV side of our industry is building a business on sandy ground, as there seems to be a lot of dissention about competition from the "big players". As this is suppose to be the future surely then there is room for them and the good sole trader. As the electrical as always had
 
The yeild figures arent guess work! the sap calc is mandatory! if he is upselling based on misleading figures then he is unlawfully trying to sell you something IMO
 
Again is he wrong to point out that as a long established company, there is a better chance of them still being in the market place 5 years down the road then perhaps a sole trader.

Woolworths, MFI.....all big names! No more chance of the big guys being here as a sole trader. In fact I would say as a Business Partner, not LTD I would work harder to keep afloat as it is my house on the line, unlike the Ltd company who can be gone one day and back the next. The issue here isn't the product or price of the system. With those figures I'm happy. It's the miss selling and misleading information these companies seem to be all about. I have witnessed this first hand in several quotations and posted on here about it. SAP2005 is so simple to work to my 5 year old can do it......but it seems Nationals can't. Loosing potential jobs on systems which we know can not achieve the estimated annual yield is frustrating yet it is us the small guts who are seen as the crooks!

If it was me.....Name and Shame them!

P.S. My company is over 40years established!

P.P.S, And forgot to say, yesterday had a potential client tell us he can get 18p export tariff! That's what he had been told by a National installer. Looked into it and it was an article back in 2007 from SSE on the rate for ROC's. Scheme is no longer in operation but they felt it right to tell the potential customer that. Miss selling or not?
 
Last edited:
The yeild figures arent guess work! the sap calc is mandatory! if he is upselling based on misleading figures then he is unlawfully trying to sell you something IMO

So when you calculating my return for let's say a 5 year period, so year 2011 amd 2014 we have a wonderful summer, a bright and sunny spring and autumn is cold but sunny.

Year 2012 2013 and 2014 is the opposite, cold wet summer, a windy cloudy spring and a dark dismal winter, what would my SAP calculation be for that 5 year period
 
note the disclaimer on the sap calc. I know what your saying and i agree that the sap calc is flawed in many ways, but the sap calc must be used to estimate yeild.
 

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