Tonight’s announcement 23rd march

[Bellendian]

um... don’t most accidents happen in the home?

I know... I get what you’re saying

That's why he's closed all the shops! Working from home will doubtless spawn all manner of DIY Projects! I have to admit to embarking on one all of my own, homebrew kit on order to weather the storm!

 

[Baddegg]

Anyways I’m off to sleep now, new day tomorrow!.....great discussion and arguments all round and if I’ve annoyed anyone or got anybody’s back I do apologise ?......I blame @littlespark he started it! ?

 

[littlespark]

I’ve called off all my jobs via Facebook now. I’ve got to stay indoors with my wife and kids.
Pray for me!

My wife does sensory classes for babies, and they are going online, so I’m playing as a speilberg director tomorrow. Cameraman, director and editor.

 

[davesparks]

um... don’t most accidents happen in the home?

I know... I get what you’re saying

I dont know the figures, I would imagine a lot of minor accidents happen at home.

 

[Zerax]

...I’d go further and say the reason he’s left open ended is because he knows that no money is forthcoming for self employed...

It has to be vague because there is no time to write a 5,000 page document defining each and every little tiny detail !!!!!

In the olden days... we had a thing called "Common Sense"... but that was officially banned under the Blair/Brown years when they introduced the concept that you are entitled to do whatever you want, unless there's a specific law against it.

 

[Baddegg]

It has to be vague because there is no time to write a 5,000 page document defining each and every little tiny detail !!!!!

In the olden days... we had a thing called "Common Sense"... but that was officially banned under the Blair/Brown years when they introduced the concept that you are entitled to do whatever you want, unless there's a specific law against it.

It wouldn’t need 5000 words to include the self employed in a document already drawn up for employed people would it????
common sense it exactly what I’ll be applying in my socially distanced working life thanks @Zerax...I’ve always read and liked your posts mate but I’m not looking for your approval on this...

 

[static zap]

um... don’t most accidents happen in the home?

--Birth control ones ... Population up surge (may be a bonus)
-vs- Unknow risk for early pregnangy stages

 

[Andy78]

Terrible language from our PM, nowhere near definitive enough.

But we all know now what we should be doing for the good of everyone. Individuals choices will dictate future outcomes of all types.

I have now abandoned work unless an emergency, but I won't be telling others what they should do. There are enough facts available for them to make that decision.

As an aside, rumours are now circulating about a bill passed for self employed workers to get 80% of average monthly income based on the last three years returns for up to three months. But i'm off to bed now and will check in the morning.

 

[happysteve]

These are the only sectors that should be at work. Utilities is as close as we get but thats of course for supply to a property (DNO)
I am stopping my guys as of tonight apart from essential necessary works eg loss of power or potentially dangerous situations. Feel we have a duty to do our bit to prevent the spread of this virus to customers, public and staff.

(This post isn't specifically directed at the person I'm quoting above, please don't take it that way, it's just a useful example)

This (the two images in the post) is the list of occupations that count as "key workers" right? Came out last week, as the guidance for those who can - if there's no alternative - use schools as day-care. It's a useful list. We know who the key workers are. Important jobs. No doubt.

We also know there is a desperate need to slow down the spread of the virus, so we don't all get ill at once, so the NHS has got a cat in hell's chance of coping the best it can. Important decisions, from everyone.

How to do this?

The Government has the answer (no, stay with me!). Anything in red below is from the current (23/3/20) guidance (source: Full guidance on staying at home and away from others - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others) Anything in bold is my own emphasis as it's relevant to this discussion:

There are 3 measures, to help the reduce the speed of the spread of the virus, to help the NHS cope, to reduce fatalities:

1. Requiring people to stay at home, except for very limited purposes
2. Closing non-essential shops and community spaces
3. Stopping all gatherings of more than two people in public

Every citizen must comply with these new measures.


Alright, that's quite firm but also a bit woolly, what does that mean exactly? What does "very limited purposes" mean?


1. Staying at home

You should only leave the house for one of four reasons:

• Shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
• One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
• Any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
• Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.

The 4th bullet point doesn't mention key workers, or critical sectors. It doesn't say, "Travelling to and from work, but only where the work is absolutely necessary." It only says, "... where this abosolutely cannot be done from home."

Alright, so let's say I've got a job weaving novelty headgear for poodles; I think we can all agree it's not really top of the list in the fight against the coronavirus, and quite frankly the less novelty headgear there is for poodles in the world, the better. I apparently can't do this at home, because the machine that makes novelty headgear for poodles weighs about 3 tons and won't fit in my home office. But suppose I really love my job, and want to carry on doing it. Can I?

These four reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.

Ah, right. So if I can do my job - and that includes "travelling to and from work" - I should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring I'm 2m apart from anyone outside my household."

These measures must be followed by everyone. Separate advice is available for individuals or households who are isolating, and for the most vulnerable who need to be shielded.

In fact workers in critical sectors are mentioned in the next paragraph:

If you work in a critical sector outlined in this guidance, or your child has been identified as vulnerable, you can continue to take your children to school.

So there is no distinction between key workers, and those with other jobs, except for the aspect of being allowed out to take your kids to school if you need to. However, if your job cannot be done from home, "you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household."

What else can we do?



2. Closing non-essential shops and public spaces

Last week, the Government ordered certain businesses - including pubs, cinemas and theatres - to close. The Government is now extending this requirement to a further set of businesses and other venues, including:

• all non-essential retail stores - this will include clothing and electronics stores; hair, beauty and nail salons; and outdoor and indoor markets, excluding food markets.
• libraries, community centres, and youth centres.
• indoor and outdoor leisure facilities such as bowling alleys, arcades and soft play facilities.
• communal places within parks, such as playgrounds, sports courts and outdoor gyms.
• places of worship, except for funerals attended by immediate families.
• hotels, hostels, bed and breakfasts, campsites, caravan parks, and boarding houses for commercial/leisure use (excluding permanent residents and key workers).

Ok, good to know. Possibly not as relevant for this discussion, unless you work in one of those locations. And the third measure?


3. Stopping public gatherings

To make sure people are staying at home and apart from each other, the Government is also stopping all public gatherings of more than two people.


There are only two exceptions to this rule:

• where the gathering is of a group of people who live together - this means that a parent can, for example, take their children to the shops if there is no option to leave them at home.
• where the gathering is essential for work purposes - but workers should be trying to minimise all meetings and other gatherings in the workplace.

In addition, the Government is stopping social events, including weddings, baptisms and other religious ceremonies. This will exclude funerals, which can be attended by immediate family.

So stopping all gatherings of more than 2 people, except "where the gathering is essential for work purposes - but workers should be trying to minimise all meetings and other gatherings in the workplace." Again, no distinction between key workers in critical sectors, and those who do other jobs (but can't work from home).

I'm not arguing the point one way or another. My key points are:

• Think critically. This includes working out a hierarchy of credible sources of information. At the moment I'd say written advice from .gov.uk trumps twitter feeds, news outlets, facebook posts, posts on this forum. Of course, those other sources can help interpret sources of greater credibility - they can also (inadvertantly, or on purpose) tint them with their own view, and that view is likely to be well-meaning.
• Try to do your best. Think about others, and consider their circumstances. Try and work it out. Let's try to muddle through this as best we can, and support each other.
• Be kind. Just because you should.
  

 

[ipf]

View attachment 56536Key worker .....

It's a matter of opinion.
In actual fact, this could be very ambiguous.
Think of the difference of someone travelling on London underground, as with the situation today, hundreds in close proximity of one another.
On the other hand, someone working alone from a van in a large outdoor expanse or a completely empty property.
On which have the PM and advisors based their decision?
I think it's a common sense thing, weighing up the risks and the consequences.
Unfortunately, this is where many are lacking.

 

[happysteve]

Businesses to remain closed, and exceptions:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

Via: Further businesses and premises to close - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/further-businesses-and-premises-to-close

To summarise part of the document:

Business or premises to remain closed:

"All retail with notable exceptions"

Exceptions:

"Supermarkets and other food shops, health shops, pharmacies including non- dispensing pharmacies, petrol stations, bicycle shops, home and hardware shops, laundrettes and dry cleaners, bicycle shops, garages, car rentals, pet shops, corner shops, newsagents, post offices, and banks."


Bicycle shops! Brilliant!

"Home and hardware shops." - is this what we call "the big sheds"? B&Q? Screwfix? Mayhaps, the electrical wholesalers?

 

[captaincaveman]

1) I'd rather be a poor dad than a dead dad (and I'd rather have frowning customers than customers I've put into hospital)
2) Customers can wait for their light fitting to be replaced
3) I have to home school now (and yes, I'd rather work. Although I now appreciate teachers more!)
4) I'm not hanging around in the hope of a call out where I'd have to charge them £££ to cover my bills cos they're the only jobs I'm takin

Yup, I'm signing on to universal credits! The good days are a coming

(but if they ask me everyday if I'm searching for jobs then... Suicide!)

 

[Jamie J]

So. Is that it? We can’t leave the house for non essential work? At all?

Nice and clear from bojo, what defines essential work? I’ve not been told that my site has been closed yet and as far as I’m concerned if I’m earning money to support my family then this is essential work!

 

[telectrix]

are news readers essential. not so , IMO, so why are we watching Piers Morgan spouting off as usual, telling us all to stay at home. practice what you preach, Piers, and give us all a rest from you.

 

[FatAlan]

Stay safe folks. Both Mrs FA and I are both self-employed now and confused like others re the current directions. Well up the creek without a panel financially at the moment! Real catch 22 situation as ideally we all need to batten down the hatches into isolation. Put in an application to do some work back with the Rozzers, other than that lots of DIY on the horizon.