Please help. I have a basic understanding of electirics, but 5 Electricians are stumped and I don't know where to go next. My mother in law heats her house by 4 Night Storage Heaters, all of which are wired to a Economy 7 supply/fuse board, with no RCD just MCB. The largest of the Night Storage Heaters began to fail and trip the MCD. To cut a long story short, she ended up having a new one fitted. Unfortunately this new one also now trips the MCB. The electricians have tried swapping the various supplies to the various heaters around in the E7 fuse board and the same heater is tripping the different MCB. It would be an obvious thing to consider that there is a fault on the circuit between the board and the night storage heater. However, they have now wired it into the day time board and it is not tripping. Has anyone got any ideas as we need to get it wired back into the E7 circuit??
- Thread starter Steve Poulton
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O
Octopus
Hum .......... this puzzles me - the supplier of the new heater is suggesting you get somebody else to find the fault?
That is bizarre to say the least.
O
Octopus
The OP has suggested that this storage heater ijn particular trips any of the E7 MCB's .............. so if its not the MCB, or the heater it has to be the cable and / or connections between the 2!
Sounds like dead testing shows nothing. What ideally needs to happen is to throw a test on it immediately after it trips this can be done during the day if the electrician is confident enough to energise the E7. One random try is to replace the isolator at the heater, you never know.
Murdoch. The same company that supplied the heater are trying their hardest to solve, not asking others to solve. I am seeking suggestions. I think the only thing to do is to fit a new E7 fuse board with RCD. But that still doesn't make sense if all the other heaters work in what ever MCB they are in and to repeat there is no fault with the circuit to the problem heater as it works fine on the normal supply.
There's not much to a storage heater, In your case probably 3 elements and 24 bricks.
If they have "fully" tested the circuit, the heater including all the elements and it is ok, then the only other thing it could be is a loose connection somewhere creating a high resistance or what Buzz mentioned, a faulty mcb.
If they have "fully" tested the circuit, the heater including all the elements and it is ok, then the only other thing it could be is a loose connection somewhere creating a high resistance or what Buzz mentioned, a faulty mcb.
O
Octopus
So that wouldn't be a sensible idea .
When the circuit trips, the RCD will shut off ALL the E7 circuits, so your mum will be without any heat..
Its never a good idea to change a fuseboard when there are problems...
If the heater works for a while, then it may well suggest a problem with heat build up in the cable - you state that the heater works on normal rate electricity, but how long did they leave it on for?
I'm guessing that they added a temporary link from the 24x7 board to the cable in the E7 board to said heater? Were you there when this was done?
See #36 and #38.
The answer envolves a patient late night electricain and a current clamp.
Please confirm:
Each Storage Heater has its own MCB on the E7 board and all are the same rating?
Same heater will trip any MCB on the E7 board?
You say it's the largest heater which rings bells for me
RCD will not trip if it gets too hot, MCB will!
But it will operate for hours on all MCB's in normal CU?
Are the MCB's in the main CU the same rating as the E7 one?
Each Storage Heater has its own MCB on the E7 board and all are the same rating?
Same heater will trip any MCB on the E7 board?
You say it's the largest heater which rings bells for me
RCD will not trip if it gets too hot, MCB will!
But it will operate for hours on all MCB's in normal CU?
Are the MCB's in the main CU the same rating as the E7 one?
O
Octopus
We don't know how they achieved the link from the 247 board to the heater ..........
Is it a split board? If so, I don't doubt the simplicity.
It cant be the cables as they work fine when wired into the daytime supply. I will suggest that the guys to replace the E7 MCB unit's. my hunch is that because its an old E7 unit and the main unit is newer. The MCB's may have failed and are too sensitive and need upgrading, hence the heater not tripping the normal MCB when wired into that.
Thanks everyone who offered useful advice.
Thanks everyone who offered useful advice.
I didn’t spot this in the missives above.
What is the make, model and power rating of the heater?
What is the make, model and power rating of the heater?
That’s what I’m thinking. Older mcbs in your E7 are more sensitive
E
elsparko
at first i thought he had put the "faulty" + new heater onto the 24hour supply and that they worked fine, and that this was done at the outlet rather than the db
if this is the case then its the e7 circuit that is faulty, and they have been using the 24h outlet next to the e7 outlet to test, sounds like they do not have the correct test instruments if this is how they are conducting their fault finding
buying new accessories comes after fault finding, not before.
if this is the case then its the e7 circuit that is faulty, and they have been using the 24h outlet next to the e7 outlet to test, sounds like they do not have the correct test instruments if this is how they are conducting their fault finding
buying new accessories comes after fault finding, not before.
E
elsparko
im thinking the way they have connected the booster+storage heaters into the 24hour supply and it now works
i dont think they have taken the circuit from the e7 board and tried it on the 24h supply
rather they have taken the 24hour supply and put the storage heaters on that circuit outlet
thats all that i can gather/make sense of
The impression I got was that they swapped things at the DBs. The OP doesn’t mention anything about boosters, not all E7 installations have that feature.
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elsparko
most of the bigger heaters ive worked on had a booster feature
E
elsparko
either way, something is wrong and should have been figured out on the first visit before changing the heater then backtracing from there
im betting your old storage heater has made its way to the skip, or been crushed beyond repair in the back of a van
the OP is too unclear to make sense of, you need a site visit by a competent sparky
im betting your old storage heater has made its way to the skip, or been crushed beyond repair in the back of a van
the OP is too unclear to make sense of, you need a site visit by a competent sparky
E
elsparko
a new heater has been installed and also trips, but it only trips the E7, it is unclear if the link has been made at DB or at 24h/e7 outlet beside heater
the only way to truely diagnose is to be on site
that's in possible
if theirs a fault on any heaters it would only knock out that mcb .
D
Deleted member 9648
Assuming all testing has been carried out effectively and shows no issues. Based on the info the OP has given I would suggest running a temporary new supply cable from the off peak board mcb to the new storage heater and see if it still trips. If it does it must be the heater, if it doesn't it must be the circuit cable.
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elsparko
yes but it sounds like they have connected the faulty circuit into all the other mcbs and has tripped those
We all know that the fault is probably quite simple, when found, at least. Until visiting site and having personal experience of the situation, I find some of the confident posts a little presumptuous. I don't tend to criticize other tradesmen without that personal involvement. Sorry if it upsets anyone but let's not presume we're talking about simple cockups (even if we are).
D
Deleted member 9648
no a temporary temporary....it'll prove a point. Just chuck a bit of T/E round for a night or two and disconnect the circuit cable feeding the offending heater
is an intermittent lighting fault one that occurs only when switched on but fine if left off. ?
As regards the heater, maybe.....but how do you know it's state, or whether previous tests were or were not carried out.
Five visits seems excessive but how do we know what they involved or how long they took?
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elsparko
is an intermittent lighting fault one that occurs only when switched on but fine if left off. ?
a farmer i know supplied one of his sheds with steel fence wire, over about a kilometer nailed directly to the top of fence posts
basically a 230v electric fence, cant remember what sort of animal was unfortunate enough to land on said fence but it blew the main fuse
Would have been fine if the fence posts were taller!
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