Trainees, Show Us Your Installs

[ElectroChem]

I seem to recall a similar conversation the last time I posted a panel. I do actually have a colour scheme for this one:
Red/White/Blue/Black - 415V 3P+N
Purple/Grey - +24VDV/0V (earthed)
Orange - VSD I/O wiring
White/Black - analog wiring from CO controller to terminals (shielded 2 pair cable inside the ducting)

I'll tidy up the schematic then we have a guy to properly draft it in CAD for delivery to the client.

 

[Darkwood]

I seem to recall a similar conversation the last time I posted a panel. I do actually have a colour scheme for this one:
Red/White/Blue/Black - 415V 3P+N
Purple/Grey - +24VDV/0V (earthed)
Orange - VSD I/O wiring
White/Black - analog wiring from CO controller to terminals (shielded 2 pair cable inside the ducting)

I'll tidy up the schematic then we have a guy to properly draft it in CAD for delivery to the client.

I added to my post if you want a re-read it, I cannot comment on colour coding as ours differs so much:-

-Blue - DC control
-Red - AC control
-Black - Power cables
-Orange - Cable that usually have external power source or ones that are tapped of the incoming side of main switch meaning they are not isolated with the switch (Cab lighting as an example)
We do not use phase colours within the panel exept for the actual power supply itself.
-We would have to segragate the low voltage terminals and the control terminals and not be next to each other.
-I assume the VSD motor cable are connected direct to the drive not through any connectors, usually you would use DIN connectors for all external cables and the drive output cables would be integrally screened, a screening clamp would also be waiting for the motor cable to terminate.
-The cable I'D (numbering) is missing as already mentioned.


There are a few more but I'm only comparing with our reg's here and in part I know some will be different but in other areas it's clear you must be breaching local regulation.

My biggest concern here is these fans are acting as a safety system or react to safety critical systems but I see no allowance for that in design, I see no redundancy in design if the function of these fans is to exhaust the build up of gasses or to limit the effects of a fire by use of the extract system. - like I said before, its no critisism to yourself as you are under instruction here but such a control system would need to be carefully designed with the input of regional fire service and building control if it was over here, in the event of a fire it may often be the case that the drive goes into a burn out mode and will ignore all overloads etc to ensure the fan operates until destruction (Omron model you have doesn't have such options if I recall).

Example - your garbage fan is switched off on the panel, the fire alarm indicates a fire in the garbage area, the Fire panel should then relay a signal to your panel to over-ride any normal status and bring the fan on to do what has been spec'd by the local safety authorities... as it stands it seems your are building a stand alone system that would just get a preset speed command if the fire panel sent a signal, this could only work if the selector switch was in the correct position.

Apologies for the listings here but building various panels for decades means I pick up on these things at a glance and hope you take them in the constructive context they are meant .

What it comes down to is, if your boss is happy then your --- is covered but just have a seed in the back of your mind about the points I make, maybe further down the line you can start bringing up these issues and score some brownie points.

 

[ElectroChem]

Apologies for the listings here but building various panels for decades means I pick up on these things at a glance and hope you take them in the constructive context they are meant .

Oh I certainly do, please don't worry on that score. You raise good points and some of them did come up in the design process. There are no set regs for colour coding of panel wiring here, it's often left up to us or the client may have a site spec. One common one I see is orange/grey for 24V with blue/white for PLC I/O and red/black for 240V.

Would have liked to properly label wires, but no room in the quote. If the panel were destined for one of our industrial clients then absolutely would be.

Good point on the terminals, I may well pop a divider in between the garbage fan and control terminals just to be safe. The outgoing motor cable will indeed go straight to the drive, I've seen braid clamps and personally like them but they seem much less common here than on Euro gear.

On the safety system side, the panel has to respond to the alarm but is not itself part of the fire system. I've integrated a fire alarm healthy relay that is held on by an external contact (or I'll rewire if the health signal is a voltage). If this is lost it will cut the garbage fan and lock the exhaust on bypassing the panel switch. The inverter does have an override signal, Omron doesn't make it obvious in the manual as it voids warranty.

Thanks for the feedback, as you've noted the same principles of good design apply whatever the specific laws concerned.

 

[hightower]

My very first consumer unit install. Open to constructive criticism, one rcd more heavily loaded as house getting extension so planning for future.

 

[Marvo]

Looks good for a first CU.

I'd suggest you cut off the surplus busbar to reduce the risk of accidental contact.

Is there a reson you've got 3x neutral wires under the same screw on the LHS neutral bar?

 

[hightower]

Looks good for a first CU.

I'd suggest you cut off the surplus busbar to reduce the risk of accidental contact.

Is there a reson you've got 3x neutral wires under the same screw on the LHS neutral bar?

I think the boss wanted the bus bar leaving on ready for a couple new circuits from the extension that'll be installed next week.

The neutrals, I did them like that to keep them together since there's 3 lines in the 2nd breaker from the left - is that not the done way?

 

[Darkwood]

Looks good for a first CU.

I'd suggest you cut off the surplus busbar to reduce the risk of accidental contact.

Is there a reson you've got 3x neutral wires under the same screw on the LHS neutral bar?

I would have to go against you on that point, you are supposed to consider expansion into the design of any board fit, chopping the busbar would IMHO limit any future additions without sourcing another busbar. I would although pop some insulating tabs on the spare busbar stabs. :ciappa:

 

[Marvo]

I'm not sure about your local regs but 3 into one terminal isn't permitted where I am.

If you leave the busbar then I'd say you should have the spare MCB's on it. Again not sure of your local regs, just my personal suggestion. **edit** DW beat me to it, apparently it's all cool by the pool .

 

[Darkwood]

I'm not sure about your local regs but 3 into one terminal isn't permitted where I am.

If you leave the busbar then I'd say you should have the spare MCB's on it. Again not sure of your local regs, just my personal suggestion.

You can have as many cables in a terminal as long as it doesn't impeed on the ability of the terminal to clamp all the conductors securely without damaging them, its not best in design to use the mcb as a multiple joint but it's not breaching any regs as such.

 

[davesparks]

I'm not sure about your local regs but 3 into one terminal isn't permitted where I am.

If you leave the busbar then I'd say you should have the spare MCB's on it. Again not sure of your local regs, just my personal suggestion. **edit** DW beat me to it, apparently it's all cool by the pool .

Three in to one is necessary here as the neutrals for that circuit all have to be in the correctly numbered terminal for that circuit.
Three in one terminal is pretty common when you have the two legs of a ring plus a spur.

 

[hightower]

Three in to one is necessary here as the neutrals for that circuit all have to be in the correctly numbered terminal for that circuit.
Three in one terminal is pretty common when you have the two legs of a ring plus a spur.

That's exactly what this is - the spur is about 16 inches from the board too. It was a really bizarre house to be honest - radial for downstairs on 15a fuse, 2 radials upstairs, 4 sockets on 1, 2 sockets on the other, but both wired in 2.5 to a 30a fuse.

 

[Darkwood]

As we receive the info it sounds like you have a few aditional circuits to add, this would fill this board to capacity where I would have suggested you used a board that left you at least a few spare ways at the end of the job for future unknown additions, yes your correct with the 3 N in the bar as it corrosponds to the 32amp breaker, (Think the S- African sun is getting to Marvo :biggrin5

 

[hightower]

As we receive the info it sounds like you have a few aditional circuits to add, this would fill this board to capacity where I would have suggested you used a board that left you at least a few spare ways at the end of the job for future unknown additions, yes your correct with the 3 N in the bar as it corrosponds to the 32amp breaker, (Think the S- African sun is getting to Marvo :biggrin5

Thanks - it wasn't my design, boss planned it all, I was just told to wire it, but all very helpful to keep in mind for future [emoji3]

Think there was 3 spare ways so with extension that'll be 2 more used and 1 spare left in board.

 

[hightower]

Got to admit, I thought you guys were going to rip it to shreds - are you all getting soft or something? Where's tel? He'll tell it how it is....

 

[Marvo]

......(Think the S- African sun is getting to Marvo :biggrin5

Oi, I'm right her and I heard that!!!

I'm learning a few things tonight which is great. I have another question though, with the arrangement you have there with three wires in one MCB, why is that classed as a ring final with a spur and not as two circuits ie a ring final and a radial?