Trying my best not to drop another spark in it

[martin mcguinness]

Hiya lads
I was asked to have a look at wiring in a recently installed kitchen as some of the appliances tripping the rcd when on. The kitchen was supplied and fitted by one of the national companies with a bird in its title /logo (shouldn't name and shame overpriced rip off crap). The customer had also bought all the appliances ex display 7 of and 5 of them are faulty but the manufacturers engineers have stated that they are ok nothing wrong with them but ordering parts for them????. I pat tested them and found 4 x n to e faults and 1 l to e fault. Then the wiring of the kitchen. this is where I don't want to drop the guy that done it in the £$&%.
3 x domino hobs all over 2kw each, 1 x single oven 3.6kw, 1 x int micro Combi oven 3.1kw 1 x warming drawer 2.1 kw all on the ring circuit.
The sockets the oven, micro and warming drawer all behind the appliances and plasterboard cut to allow box, faceplate and plug to be sunk in to allow appliances to go right back.
the 3.6kw oven on a 1mm flex and a 13a plug and socket.
the sockets for the domino hobs all under the plinth ( plenty of room in units )
A 6mm t&e at hobs not used. go figure
also he had worked on the heating controls, and altered lighting no rcd protection on circuits.
I have given a price for running new circuits to correctly spread the load and have isolation in accessible places, correctly connect using correct size ant type of switches, isolators etc and renew consumer unit with rcbo's but I think it is unfair for the customer to have to pay again to get done correctly but as I said don't want to drop the guy in it ( he's a commercial spark but not a very good domestic one obviously).
I don't thinks its good practice to criticise an other tradesman to a customer as if we looked hard enough we could pick fault with anything but its hard to shut up and I think he should be paying to have this fixed as he is not capable of doing the rectifications
any opinions and don't hold back
cheers

 

[PEG]

Hi,has the original spark been offered the opportunity to rectify,or get rectified?

 

[dmxtothemax]

DITTO ! has any one approacned the previous sparky in a civilised way and asked him to rectify the faults ?
If not, then it is NOT fair to attack his character.
If the customer decides he does NOT want the previous electriacian involved ? thats a differant matter, and is NOT the previous electricians fault, as he has not had a chance to fix it !

 

[James]

I would advise the customer to raise your concerns with the spark, also where are the certificates?

 

[Dustydazzler]

From my experience and this is only my personal experience most kitchen fitters are no electricians.
They will ‘have a go’ at most jobs and spur off what ever is existing when fitting new appliances.
As I do a lot of domestic work I come across loads of kitchen fitter installed wiring.
The customer should contact the kitchen firm first to see what they will do.
In the meantime you simply submit your quote for all the new work and leave it at that for now.

 

[ruston]

DITTO ! has any one approacned the previous sparky in a civilised way and asked him to rectify the faults ?
If not, then it is NOT fair to attack his character.
If the customer decides he does NOT want the previous electriacian involved ? thats a differant matter, and is NOT the previous electricians fault, as he has not had a chance to fix it !

Maybe he wasn't even given the correct spec and was only told that what he installed is all that was required. It is not unusual for the lady of the house to change the design a few times...

 

[snowhead]

As others,

List the work you feel needs doing.
Highlight the work you think is not to standard as a result of the new kitchen so the customer can approach who ever they paid to do the work (kitchen supplier?) and give them chance to correct or pay for correction.

If you are going to critisise others then you need an accurate list backed up with reg numbers otherwise it'll turn into a slanging match.

Obviously the new Consumer unit required is not the fault of the kitchen installer, that's your recommendation or preference.

If the 1.0mm flex and plug was already fitted by the oven manufacturer, that's O.K, my 2.7 kw kettle only has a 1.0mm flex.

 

[martin mcguinness]

unfortunately due to the new appliances tripping the rcd they had an engineer from the appliance manufacturer who blamed the wiring for the tripping issues. as I explained if the points don't trip with something else plugged in its not the wiring its the appliances and when I checked them I was able to confirm same. Can anyone explain this one the engineer stated there is nothing wrong with the appliances but I will have to order parts for them.
unfortunately the so called engineer slated the install and has managed to convince the client that they should get someone else and I was asked to have a look.
I didn't go in to any specifics and advised that as far as I was concerned the install wasn't finished and to have the original electrician complete it and if needed I would speak to him re issues I have found. But they asked me to give a quote to bring to current standards as due to the appliance engineer they are wary of getting him back.
I haven't went in to any specifics of issues with the install and they only asked for a price to bring up to standard but I have priced as finishing job
I don't feel its good practice to complete someone else work or bring up to standard without giving them a chance but why should this be at the customers cost

 

[Pete999]

White Good Guy buck passing, not knowing what he is/was talking about

 

[martin mcguinness]

Just a note in my defence I haven't went in to any detail with customer re certain findings to avoid the blame game and would rather speak to the original guy but they are not forthcoming with a contact to allow me to do so

 

[martin mcguinness]

the white goods guy has put the wind up the customers and due to being asked to have a look I'm now stuck in the middle

 

[Pete999]

the white goods guy has put the wind up the customers and due to being asked to have a look I'm now stuck in the middle

Tell your customer what you have found and let them sort things out with the first Electrician, best not to get over involved Mate

 

[Taylortwocities]

Tell your customer what you have found and let them sort things out with the first Electrician, best not to get over involved Mate

I was just about to post the same thing. It's a can or worms. I don't know how much time you have spent on it, but I would be inclined to say that you have given them your professional opinion on this and walk away.
May be a small loss (or try invoicing for your time to date). If they dont pay take it on the chin.

 

[DPG]

A few commas wouldn't go amiss.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I don't think it's a matter of 'dropping another spark in it'. You don't have to comment on the spark directly, you simply quote the customer for the work that is required, explaining that some of it is dangerous (if it is) and you wait to hear back from them.