Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting | Page 2 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

That is the problem with those smart lights they need their own supply so neutral is not optional but required. Which is why the move to putting neutral to switch now.
That switch clearly states neutral (optional).
 
Yeh indeed it does, I have used some that do need a neutral. That is maybe ok then as the OP has not used the earth then. As he did not need to, phew!
 
Further…that fancy switch has only one live terminal to serve the three switched outputs.
Unfortunately your existing switch will probably be powered from two separate lighting supplies (upstairs and down).
So it can’t be used.

Well it could but it needs a whole LOT of rewriting and re configuration of your consumer unit.

Also I don’t think that switch would work in a 2-way situation unless there is another one upstairs as well.
 
I will need to go through the documents that came with the house for when the refurb took place. It was fairly recent though. The previous owner only owned the house for 12 months and we bought it last year. The owner before the previous owner had the rewire as part of a whole house upgrade. So call it approximately 2-4 years ago, 5 at most. It included LED ceiling lights downstairs, modern kitchen lighting etc and extra sockets.

Regarding RCD, there's a circuit breaker box downstairs, including trips for upstairs lighting, upstairs sockets, downstairs lighting, downstairs sockets, garage etc etc all on individual loops. No the circuit did not trip and is still running as we speak (I can check from my phone). Forgive me, but should it have tripped? I seem to remember a few years ago, people would bridge neutral and earth to give a common ground called 'bootleg ground' and also not have tripped? In essence it's probably what I've done here.

If the blue is not a neutral and the current installation is dangerous, I will remove the switch and reinstall the old one. I can get an electrician in sometime in the future, but I don't need to rush. However I need to understand whether the old switch is dangerous too.
 
I think the bottom line is that switch is not likely to operate the two way switching on the stairs as #18 states. Any chance of a pic for the wiring of the one you have working in the bedroom.
 
As to dangerous, unknown, not enough info/pics. It just worried me for a moment when you mentioned neutral/earth somewhat nonchalantly. But it sounds like it is not a neutral anyway.
 
I don't think they had the house rewired 5 years ago, more like 15 at least of theres red cables still inolved
 
Not only am I dumb. I'm really really dumb. Having actually looked a bit more carefully, I can see that I'm energizing the earth :( The green and yellow is earthing on the metal frame of the holder. I can't believe I've made such a dangerous mistake. Thank you for highlighting this to me.

Here are the photos anyway, the question is, is it safe for me to reinstall the old switch and what does the blue wire do? Any help at this point would be absolutely wonderful.

Is it worth me disconnecting the earth to see if it works? On a purely academic level?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting

[ElectriciansForums.net] Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting

[ElectriciansForums.net] Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting

[ElectriciansForums.net] Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting

[ElectriciansForums.net] Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting
 
The reason it functions is because you have connected earth to the neutral terminal and I am guessing unlike you other switch this one needs a neutral to function which the earth will do however, that is not the way to go about it and you need to reinstate the original switch. I doubt the unused blue is a neutral, put the original one back but if in doubt get an electrician in to check it.
 
Oh for sure, it's coming out. I am happy to admit defeat on this one. I definitely need to get a pro in when doing this stuff in the future. I will get a qualified electrician in, probably after Xmas now to install it, if I decide to install it at all. It might not be worth the effort and nothing is more important than safety when it comes to your house, especially not for a bit of convenience!!!

Just while we're on the subject, how much would/should a good electrician charge to install a neutral cable? Is it a rip-the-wall out job? If so, I think I'll give it a swerve :)
 
It may be possible to re wire the circuit to provide neutral down the existing cable but that would have to be investigated.

Also, I think you are confusing Neutral,l and Earth of a 230v A.C. system with 0v/ground in electronics. In an A.C. system, earth is connected to the Neutral at the supply end and to the general mass off earth, but from that point on it is only used as a safety system to make sure that all exposed metal work remains at 0v to earth. The Neutral cable provides a return path for all connected loads. Lighting circuits are often wired with a live and neutral in the light fitting and then a pefmenant live wire is run from the fitting to switch with a switched live running back to control the light.

As mentioned it is possible to get smart switches that don't require a neutral (these work by sitting in series with the load (bulb) and passing a small current through it even when off.

There are also smart dimmers that can be wired in at the light fitting, using the existing switch as a control input.

But as already stated, it would be best for you to find an electrician who is experienced in wiring these smart switches. If you find the right solution it may only involve a couple of hours of labour to get a few circuits wired up to smart switches. All tested and certificates issued.
 
What worries me, having established the earth is energised (possibly) is why did the RCD not trip. I applaud @NotALeccy your honesty in checking and listening and "owning" up to what is a very understandable mistake in the circumstances. Can you put up a picture of the box which controls this circuit so we could see if you do have an RCD.
 

Reply to Trying to understand 3-way switch and smart lighting in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

News and Offers from Sponsors

  • Article
Hope everyone has had a great Christmas and here’s hoping we all have a better new year coming our way ! Remember our riches aren’t measured by...
    • Friendly
    • Like
Replies
11
Views
623
  • Article
Join us at electronica 2024 in Munich! Since 1964, electronica has been the premier event for technology enthusiasts and industry professionals...
    • Like
Replies
0
Views
780
  • Sticky
  • Article
Thanks so much for sharing this with us! I’ll definitely take a look, it seems like there are a lot of useful and interesting products. The idea...
    • Like
Replies
5
Views
2K

Similar threads

brilliant thanks for your support. Lee
Replies
8
Views
703
  • Question
Thanks for your feedback. Its reassuring to know your experience suggests space won't be an issue. I requested 47mm backboxes for switches when...
Replies
8
Views
489

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top