U.S. Electrician looking to work in Scotland

[Maji236]

Greetings, I'm currently living in NY (way Upstate, above Albany). The wife & I are considering to take an extended stay to borders in Scotland. Obviously no time too soon because of COVID. We've visited for a few weeks at a time before & want to do a few months next time. Not being independently wealthy, we would need employment.

I started in 1996, 24 years in the trade. I have completed the IBEW 5 year apprenticeship about 15 years ago. I've worked industrial, commercial, & residential; from 13.2KV to 24v fire alarm & signal wire, including CAT6e & various telephone cabling. Ran a crew at a 250KV substation, to wiring outlets in houses. I even worked at Nine Mile Point Nuclear Generating Station for a few weeks on a maintenence shutdown. Did a few years at Global Foundries, the new microchip fab here in NY. Worked from up near Canada down to South Carolina. I realize you use 240/400v 50 Hz. But the fundamentals of electricity are the same (science rules).

Where the hell do I start to look for work? Here in NY, being Union, I'd sign my local Unions' Journeyman Electrician out of work list. And as need arrises I'd look through the list & pick which one I want. Whether by how close they are to my home or by company, etc. Then the referral agent dispatches us, in order of whomever signed the out of work list first. I have also signed books in other jurisdictions, but I'd sign as a traveler, local JW's would have preference or first pick.

Any insight would be appreciated.
Kevin Kerr

 

[James]

Welcome to the forum.

Please don’t read this as obstructive,

but there are a few hurdles that you need to jump over before working as an electrician in the uk, and Scotland has a few extra rules on top of the uk requirements.

Firstly, it is an open job market. Anyone can apply for any job they take a fancy to, in theory the applicants are sorted by the company that is recruiting and a handful of most likely to be chosen are offered a chance to be interviewed.

Company’s are likely to look at qualifications, work history, experience etc. When choosing who to interview.

Your residential status is likely to go against you for most permanent positions but may well be fine for some temporary work.

BS. 7671 is our book of rules,
It may not be a bad thing for you to purchase a copy and have a good read.
It is a mixture of some hard and fast rules that should not be broken like access to live terminals should not be possible without the use of a tool or a key.
Some rules are far more open to interpretation and knowledge of the subject.
Like cables should be selected so they are suitable for the environment they are installed in and the loading they will carry in both normal and fault conditions.

The first step in being a qualified electrician in the uk would be to have a city and guilds 2382 certificate.
It is normally a 2 to 3 day course followed by a multiple choice exam.
I expect someone with your experience to walk through the exam with half the allotted time spent twiddling your fingers and wondering what’s for dinner.

As far as uk electricity itself, as you know voltage and frequency are slightly different. Fundamentally, as you know, it’s all the same.

We normally distribute 3 phase and neutral to end users, domestic and small users will only be provided with 1 phase and a neutral 230v nominal.
This is generally distributed around the property as supplied, transformers are not used in a dwelling to reduce voltage to sockets etc.
Earthing to ground is a whole subject matter on its own for you to research.
The only time we refer to a cable as hot, is when it has so much current passing through it that the insulation is beginning to get soft or smoking.

For your first experience in uk electrical work, I would suggest if you can find it, some work as a mate to an experienced electrician.
It will help you convert your knowledge to the uk way of thinking about electrical safety.
It is in fact quite different to the US way of thinking.

We also have more emphasis on testing new and old installations to ensure they will stand up to faults if they arrise
Such as testing loop impedance of a final circuit to ensure that in the event of a short, the fuse or breaker will activate in the required time to prevent damage.

I wish you good fortunes in your travels.

 

[telectrix]

what he said^^^^^.
[automerge]1596094093[/automerge]
if you are going to be on Scottish Borders, you can also seek work in the north of England, obviously close to the border. Passport not required.
[automerge]1596094134[/automerge]
where did kermit come from?

 

[littlespark]

Don’t come to the borders! I’m the only sparky in the village!

seriously though, welcome to the forum and the neighbourhood.
Kerr is a traditional borders name


where in the borders are you coming to? I could loan you my BS7671 for reference or a handbook.
I’m sure we do things different over here, as described above.

oh, and we drive on the left over here.

 

[Maji236]

Welcome to the forum.

Please don’t read this as obstructive,

but there are a few hurdles that you need to jump over before working as an electrician in the uk, and Scotland has a few extra rules on top of the uk requirements.

Firstly, it is an open job market. Anyone can apply for any job they take a fancy to, in theory the applicants are sorted by the company that is recruiting and a handful of most likely to be chosen are offered a chance to be interviewed.

Company’s are likely to look at qualifications, work history, experience etc. When choosing who to interview.

Your residential status is likely to go against you for most permanent positions but may well be fine for some temporary work.

BS. 7671 is our book of rules,
It may not be a bad thing for you to purchase a copy and have a good read.
It is a mixture of some hard and fast rules that should not be broken like access to live terminals should not be possible without the use of a tool or a key.
Some rules are far more open to interpretation and knowledge of the subject.
Like cables should be selected so they are suitable for the environment they are installed in and the loading they will carry in both normal and fault conditions.

The first step in being a qualified electrician in the uk would be to have a city and guilds 2382 certificate.
It is normally a 2 to 3 day course followed by a multiple choice exam.
I expect someone with your experience to walk through the exam with half the allotted time spent twiddling your fingers and wondering what’s for dinner.

As far as uk electricity itself, as you know voltage and frequency are slightly different. Fundamentally, as you know, it’s all the same.

We normally distribute 3 phase and neutral to end users, domestic and small users will only be provided with 1 phase and a neutral 230v nominal.
This is generally distributed around the property as supplied, transformers are not used in a dwelling to reduce voltage to sockets etc.
Earthing to ground is a whole subject matter on its own for you to research.
The only time we refer to a cable as hot, is when it has so much current passing through it that the insulation is beginning to get soft or smoking.

For your first experience in uk electrical work, I would suggest if you can find it, some work as a mate to an experienced electrician.
It will help you convert your knowledge to the uk way of thinking about electrical safety.
It is in fact quite different to the US way of thinking.

We also have more emphasis on testing new and old installations to ensure they will stand up to faults if they arrise
Such as testing loop impedance of a final circuit to ensure that in the event of a short, the fuse or breaker will activate in the required time to prevent damage.

I wish you good fortunes in your travels.

All good suggestions! I thank you, James. I was looking for exactly what you told me. As I researched a bit, I thought just what you suggested, to be an Electrician's mate first (we call them helpers here), which is not the same as an apprentice. This would also be a good short term thing as well. We'd be limited to 6 months max stay in UK at a time.

It is mostly an open market here in US too. Some states have a higher Union density than others. I chose to be Union 20 years ago, so I could be the best trained & paid as well. In/around Albany, NY, the open market or nonUnion, top hourly is around $30 +health insurance & possibly a 401K. As a member, I get $41 + Health insurance, an annuity, & a defined benefit pension.

I look forward to using this forum to help.
[automerge]1596154371[/automerge]

Don’t come to the borders! I’m the only sparky in the village!

seriously though, welcome to the forum and the neighbourhood.
Kerr is a traditional borders name


where in the borders are you coming to? I could loan you my BS7671 for reference or a handbook.
I’m sure we do things different over here, as described above.

oh, and we drive on the left over here.

Right. My grandmother had a Kerr crest plaque at her home for many years. I never paid it much attention. We have Highland games here stateside. I went to them for many years & enjoyed the caber ----ing, sheef ----ing, music, Guinness, Newcastle, & the clan tents. My wife thought it'd be nice to host a tent ourselves. We attended 3 different games over the years & never saw a Kerr tent! In order to have the tent at one, I had to join an association. I found one, Kerr Family Association of North America. Doing that, sparked our interest to visit the land of our ancestors. (Also, my wife started watching Outlander)

So, to answer your question of where, we're not sure yet. Still planning & waiting for the COVID thing to blow over. (I wish my Pres. would at LEAST take this more seriously. I digress...) I thought it may be easier for work/living purposes to shoot for a bigger city, at least at first. Like Edinburgh or possibly Glasgow. So far we spent a week in northern Edinburgh near Leith in August & visited the Fringe. Highlights were, a great David Bowie tribute & a suprisingly wonderful Blues Brothers tribute as well, great fun. Had spectacular stuffed potatoes at a vendor while there too. Also spent a week in Melrose. Ah, Melrose... what a gem! We stayed at Burt's. Visited Jedburgh too, unfortunately the Abbey & the castle/prison were closed that day. So we walked the town & ate at The Carter's Rest for a great meal & fell in love with sticky toffee pudding! Spent a few days in Oban too & went to their local highland games while there. Much smaller then ours here but still fun! I didn't have to drive AT ALL while I was there. But I do know the lefty rule.

My brother researched our family on many of the internets' usual places. My 3rd great grandfather came to the states in mid 1800's: George Kerr – b.Feb 1842 Ochiltree, Ayrshire, Scotland. My Gr. Gr. Grandfather was born 15 Nov 1880 in North Vineland, NJ.

I've gone on long enough. Thanks for the info & I hope to see more of the country soon. CHEERS

 

[R-fur]

Kevin
As well as general domestic/commercial work there is also industry specific work such as oil, wind and electricity supply, you will still need tickets of some sort but it might be easier to get a start than the traditional route. Have a look online for agency's that supply labour such as Vital or Maze 8 phone them up and have a conversation. They only get paid if they can get you a job so they will have the best advice. Hope you can come and enjoy Gods country.

 

[pc1966]

What the rest of the folk said! Hopefully you will get over and find work no problem.

As above there are quite a few differences in how things are done here compared to the USA. Some make your job that little bit harder (the strong emphasis on design & testing for fault clearing) but others make jobs simpler, like our fused plugs allowing far less circuits per property and the few supply options (you will find practically all LV supplies are 230V to neutral, and your choice is single or 3 phase).

Most of our wiring regulations come from the standards drafted by the IET (our equivalent of the IEEE) and now managed and published by the British Standards Institute:

BS 7671 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Formally this is referred to by the BS 7671 number, but often it is called the wiring regulations or simple 'the regs' one here, and also sometimes BBB from "big blue book" (colour of the current 18th edition).

There are other regulations for special cases like outdoor events, fire alarms, etc, but the above covers practically all work in fixed properties. However, the standard is a pretty dull read and not always clear as to the intentions, so the IET also publishes a set of guidance notes for specific topics. They are very handy, but the IET knows how to charge! If you search for "IET shop" that is the obvious place to get genuine copies.

While they are all useful to read, probably the ones of greatest use are No. 3 on testing, and No. 8 on earthing & bonding.

Also the IET publishes a pocket book (for folks with large pockets) called the On Site Guide (just referred to as OSG here) that has key aspects of the regs and tables of useful values, covering the majority of routine work.

All the best!

 

[Vortigern]

I imagine if you talk to NARIC (google it) they can/will translate your qualifications/experience into English/British or even Scottish equivalents. I imagine your experience you describe should put you on the ground running with a couple of minor certs.

 

[pc1966]

Just a few other random comments:

As said above, we don't have the "closed shop" arrangements where you have to be a union member to get certain jobs, all can apply. Having said that, your rights to be a member of a union are also protected for most jobs. If you do want to join a UK union for assistance with any employment disputes, etc, then Unite the Union is the obvious choice:

Trade Union, Unions UK, Workers Union - Unite the union

Unite is dedicated to serving the best interests of its members, protecting workers rights and equality and diversity in the workplace. Join Unite Today.

unitetheunion.org

The closest thing to necessary membership is to be part of a scheme for competent people, basically a professional body that reviews and manages some qualification aspects. I think this is needed if you want to be a fully qualified electrician signing off jobs. In Scotland I think that would be SELECT:

Home

www.select.org.uk

These are often called 'scams' as frequently they seem to extract money simply to have that label you need proving professional competence. Also what can be essential is "JIB card" which is used to show you have basic health & safety awareness and a processional skill so you are permitted to work on building sites, etc.

Welcome to the Scottish Joint Industry Board | SJIB.org.uk

Homepage - find out more about the Scottish Joint Industry Board, from it's roots in 1969 to its present day services and team

www.sjib.org.uk

Professional insurance if you work alone would be essential on top of that, if you are employed then your employer has to provide that. In fact the UK only has two mandatory forms of insurance: one is for driving a motor vehicle, the other is to cover any employees.

Others on this forum will be able to tell you more about the various professional aspects, it is not really my area.

I have no idea of the practicalities of getting a work permit for the UK as a USA citizen, but assuming you do get it (which will be essential for any work) then you need to apply for a National Insurance (NI) number, the UK equivalent of your social security number. This is how the tax office (HMRC = IRS here) deal with you.

If you work alone, or do occasional jobs, then you need to do your own tax return, but that is often a fairly simple self-assessment form, and HMRC will tell you how much tax you are due (it can be a little more complicated, but that is the basic idea).

However, if you get a salaried job (most cases if you work for another) then they will put you on PAYE (pay as you earn) and you do not need to do your tax assessment unless you have any significant other earnings (e.g. pensions, income from rented properties, etc) as your employer deducts your tax & NI contribution at source.

Medical insurance is available in the UK as is private medical care, but if you have a work permit, etc, then our national health service will cover you without payment (covered by everyone's NI).

 

[mattg4321]

Don’t forget you’ll probably need a work visa.

I have no idea how much or if this is likely to be a problem to obtain

 

[Vortigern]

You wont get one unless you come via calais.

 

[Maji236]

Just a few other random comments:

As said above, we don't have the "closed shop" arrangements where you have to be a union member to get certain jobs, all can apply. Having said that, your rights to be a member of a union are also protected for most jobs. If you do want to join a UK union for assistance with any employment disputes, etc, then Unite the Union is the obvious choice:

Trade Union, Unions UK, Workers Union - Unite the union

Unite is dedicated to serving the best interests of its members, protecting workers rights and equality and diversity in the workplace. Join Unite Today.

unitetheunion.org

The closest thing to necessary membership is to be part of a scheme for competent people, basically a professional body that reviews and manages some qualification aspects. I think this is needed if you want to be a fully qualified electrician signing off jobs. In Scotland I think that would be SELECT:

Home

www.select.org.uk

These are often called 'scams' as frequently they seem to extract money simply to have that label you need proving professional competence. Also what can be essential is "JIB card" which is used to show you have basic health & safety awareness and a processional skill so you are permitted to work on building sites, etc.

Welcome to the Scottish Joint Industry Board | SJIB.org.uk

Homepage - find out more about the Scottish Joint Industry Board, from it's roots in 1969 to its present day services and team

www.sjib.org.uk

Professional insurance if you work alone would be essential on top of that, if you are employed then your employer has to provide that. In fact the UK only has two mandatory forms of insurance: one is for driving a motor vehicle, the other is to cover any employees.

Others on this forum will be able to tell you more about the various professional aspects, it is not really my area.

I have no idea of the practicalities of getting a work permit for the UK as a USA citizen, but assuming you do get it (which will be essential for any work) then you need to apply for a National Insurance (NI) number, the UK equivalent of your social security number. This is how the tax office (HMRC = IRS here) deal with you.

If you work alone, or do occasional jobs, then you need to do your own tax return, but that is often a fairly simple self-assessment form, and HMRC will tell you how much tax you are due (it can be a little more complicated, but that is the basic idea).

However, if you get a salaried job (most cases if you work for another) then they will put you on PAYE (pay as you earn) and you do not need to do your tax assessment unless you have any significant other earnings (e.g. pensions, income from rented properties, etc) as your employer deducts your tax & NI contribution at source.

Medical insurance is available in the UK as is private medical care, but if you have a work permit, etc, then our national health service will cover you without payment (covered by everyone's NI).

Not interested in freelance, right now.
I did read about the JIB, thanks for links. Wow, all good info!

 

[Maji236]

Don’t forget you’ll probably need a work visa.

I have no idea how much or if this is likely to be a problem to obtain

From what I've read, I wouldn't need a work VISA, if I'm looking to just say for 6 months or less. As long as I at least have a return flight booked when I arrive, I'm OK. That would give me time to see if I want to stay & not raise any questions, generally.

 

[Maji236]

You wont get one unless you come via calais.

Not interested in freelance, right now.
I did read about the JIB, thanks for links. Wow, all good info!

So I sent this place an inquiry. SECTT Scottish Electrical Charitable Training Trust, Managing Electrical Apprenticeships in Scotland - http://www.sectt.org.uk/
It seems SELECT is for contractors.
SECTT is apprenticeship for – Scottish Joint Industry Board - http://www.sjib.org.uk/apprentice-adult-training-scheme/

 

[Maji236]

From what I've read, I wouldn't need a work VISA, if I'm looking to just say for 6 months or less. As long as I at least have a return flight booked when I arrive, I'm OK. That would give me time to see if I want to stay & not raise any questions, generally.

But I will look into this further, of course.