Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[OllieNotts]

Just because a guy is inexperienced, does not mean that he should get no work because there are time served lads waiting in the wings without work. I agree with the basis of what you are saying and I am not even a sparky. However, those of us that want to join the industry and do a good job wont be able to if all you time served lads get all the work and we cant.

 

[Spoon]

It is wrong that people are driving round giving false info but you will always have that.
Its hard for a customer to know what is best. Most of them will just go for the cheapest, as money is tight at the moment.
I agree with Ollie, in that we all have to start somewhere, its just wrong to bluff customers.

 

[wildgoose]

If they are not qualified then surely they are not insured. I would also expect that they never submit any notifiable jobs for LABC.

The customers insurance won't cover this work, so in the event of a fire or injury, how do people get compensated?

I think we know the answer don't we??

 

[AP Electrical]

Think the op means Electrical Trainee DI, rather than Completely unqualified maybe.

 

[Engineer54]

Just because a guy is inexperienced, does not mean that he should get no work because there are time served lads waiting in the wings without work. I agree with the basis of what you are saying and I am not even a sparky. However, those of us that want to join the industry and do a good job wont be able to if all you time served lads get all the work and we cant.

That's just the point, ....in the past you couldn't become an electrician without experience on the the job. When you had finished your training, you could in fact work in any domain be it domestic, commercial or industrial, ...It was called serving an apprenticeship!!!

What your suggesting is, ...After doing a Electrical Trainee course, that you practice at being an electrician by working in clients houses etc, without any form of supervision. I don't know about what the others think here, but there has to be something very Wrong in that philosophy of gaining experience!!

 

[UNG]

I think the problem here is what is considered to be a qualified spark there has recently been a number of posts on here where the posters believe a 17th edition regs cert and a 2391 is qualified.
I think we would all agree it is impossible to complete a C&G 2330 course or whatever they call it now in 5 weeks yet we are finding training providers promising to get you qualified in 5 weeks and these people are coming to the industry full of expectation only to be knocked down.
I believe that the 17th edition coupled with the disaster called part P has created a major headache for the industry as these have overshadowed what a true and proper qualification is.
Gaining experience is always going to be difficult and it's something that can only really be gained shadowing a spark for a number of years across a number of different jobs.
From comments made on this forum the scheme providers seem to be looking for members at any price regardless of qualification or experience

 

[OllieNotts]

What your suggesting is, ...After doing a Electrical Trainee course, that you practice at being an electrician by working in clients houses etc, without any form of supervision. I don't know about what the others think here, but there has to be something very Wrong in that philosophy of gaining experience!!

I have never said anything of the sought! I have said on many occasions it is a very bad way to learn and agree with all points made regarding these cowboys.
My point is, that just because a guy isn't as experienced as a guy who has done many years does not mean that he should not get work.
The apprentice route is a thing of the past for most spark wannabes these days its not our fault, nor is it yours but its something you are going to have to deal with. Just out of interest how many sparks a year do you train up to be of high standard and safe, professional etc?
There are a lot of bad things in the world, lots of naughty people and thats life. Unfortunately we have to live with it, and while I also agree it should be clamped down on in the case of the OP and it isnt fair......it is what it is.

 

[johnboy6083]

i think ollie has made a fair point. We all moan about the lack of on the job training/apprenticeships, but how many of us take on apprentices? Im not self employed, but i do try and encourage some of the sparks mates i work with to go to college and get qualified. The sparks mate route whilst going to college is just as good as doing an apprenticeship IMO, and its similar to how i trained.

 

[Engineer54]

I have never said anything of the sought! I have said on many occasions it is a very bad way to learn and agree with all points made regarding these cowboys.
My point is, that just because a guy isn't as experienced as a guy who has done many years does not mean that he should not get work.
The apprentice route is a thing of the past for most spark wannabes these days its not our fault, nor is it yours but its something you are going to have to deal withof . Just out interest how many sparks a year do you train up to be of high standard and safe, professional etc?
There are a lot of bad things in the world, lots of naughty people and thats life. Unfortunately we have to live with it, and while I also agree it should be clamped down on in the case of the OP and it isnt fair......it is what it is.

As part of the terms of our main contractors contract, they are obliged to take a number of local students from various technical training establishments (not sure of the numbers) giving work oriented training in there relevant disciplines. Some of them in there final year, to those that will follow the project from basically start to finish. This has been pretty standard practice on many of my contracts. As far as i'm aware, it is supposed to cover time in the design office, to following installation work in the field. Not too sure if this is on some form of block release basis, but i'll find out and get back to you.

Going back to the main theme of this thread, ...fortunately I don't have to deal with it, as you put it, it's the experienced qualified electricians and the unsuspecting customers and clients of these Electrical Trainee electricians that has that dubious pleasure.

None of these guy's should be able to be let loose on the general public on there own without first serving time with a company or working with an experienced qualified electrician for a year or two... I don't really care if that suits these guys or not, but it certainly should be a condition laid down for these scheme providers to follow.

Nothing to stop those in the industry lobbying for all major state and private contracts, doing what we are doing here, providing work related experience to a trade students in conjunction with there official training. I don't think anyone here would object to that. How you would combine that, with Electrical Trainee courses is another matter!! lol!!

 

[Electroserve]

I dont agree with fake sparkys at all... As for the comment above, spakys mates going to college to qualifie is fine as they will have the real experience to do a good job. My concern is from what ive seen alot of recently and that is Redunancys in other industrys, Mechanics, Telesales, Banking, NHS, ect, ect.. With these people using redunancy payments to fund themselfs a 2 week course, Part-p registration and a van... They are causing a massive problems as you can not learn near enough in 2 weeks that could even quailifie you to even look at re-wiring a house. I find it disgusting to be honest and would love to see new requirements brought in , skills(AM2), experience, time served.. before even been considered for Part-P registration. Luckly im moving away from Domestic and progressing well in the commercial industrial sectors.

 

[needasparks]

Were not allowed to shoot them till after april. Thats when wabbit season starts.....

 

[Octopus]

I do wonder if the "experienced spark" doesn't get the job because he/she prices it based on experience, buy quality products and include in the costs ALL the parts required. They will more often then not do the job in the timescale indicated to the client. Such an individual will also have the knowledge to ensure that they charge a suitable rate to cover all their overheads and make a living.

"Inexperienced sparks" on the other hand won't price the job properly, will take longer than indicated, and don't have a handle on all the overheads so end up in a downward spiral to get more work to earn more.

I don't think that this "issue" is confined to Electrical Trainee, and there are always a few "experinced" time served appentices thinking that after 4 years they too can join the sole trader world and make a profit using £12 as their hourly rate.

This forum would be doing the industry a service if it had a section purely for the benefit of those going it alone, because, whether you are timeserved, or new its VERY hard to earn a living.

From watching the number of threads from newbies/redundant people and the plethora of people thinking they can join the trade and earn adecent crust is astonishing.

Year one - try and make an overall profit - i.e. be prepared to work for little or nothing
Year two - build on year one, and aim to make £12K per year profit
Year three - continue to build a business and aim to make £18K per year profit
Year four - aim to make £24K

Thats the reality newbies of all types need to grasp.

 

[highspark]

My main point is customers can not differenciate between the real fully qualified electrician and a five week wonder with poor easy gained qualifications! Beacause they have the same badge as the fully qualified lads. There should be some sort of badge that raises you from the rest.

 

[Andy 7671]

My main point is customers can not differenciate between the real fully qualified electrician and a five week wonder with poor easy gained qualifications! Beacause they have the same badge as the fully qualified lads. There should be some sort of badge that raises you from the rest.

Umm.. no sarcasm intended but is that not the JIB gold card..?