Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[alarm man]

My own personal circumstances mean that I am currently retraining in the electrical sector... I am a mature student at the age of 40...and I have got 20 years of electronic engineering experience, as well as 7 years of study through C&G , ONC and HNC qualifications in other engineering disciplines.

I am now retraining through the Part P Domestic installer, 17th edition, and C&G2395 inspection and testing courses over the period of a few months of courses. My previous engineering training and experience mean that making engineering calculations for ohms law...voltage drop...transposing adiabatic equations and likewise are all second nature. Also, with my skills and knowledge learn't from previous BTEC and C&G courses within engineering, it means there are a lot of 'transferrable skills' which are common to both industries...

I am also going to become a member of one of the competent schemes...get my insurances...and ensure everything is above board... However, I am not under any misconception that I am going to be able to walk straight into customer premises and start doing full house rewiring, or carrying out full periodicals... or taking on large scale jobs. On the contrary...I am organising to go out on the tools with a fully trained spark for a few months to gain the essential practical experience before making a decision to go out on my own...

I understand everyones comments (and anger) on this subject...and that there are also many cowboys out there currently practicing bad electrics ... However, i don't think it is appropriate to group everyone in the same bracket... who decide to retrain and to take their hand to this route of training...there are also many experienced and clever guys that are taking this domestic installer route of training !

im not knocking the likes of yourself who already have a knowlege ,thats more diversifing than a total change as such,not unlike a spark going into electronics,but you have some who work in a office pencil pushing one day then i want to be a spark the next,but cant do it the college route as they have kids and a mortgage,with your knowledge id do it the college route

 

[pencilpusher]

pencil pushing

Hey, can you leave me out of this please!:waving:

 

[grimysparks80]

What annoys me about the short courses is that public and many employers dont see the difference. We`re all just electricians to them. My qualifications allow me to work as a spark but its my experience that makes me a good one.

 

[Adam W]

Ignorance is bliss.

Yes, I doubt there are many DIs who would consider themselves or even realise that they are effectively 'cowboys' due to their lack of knowledge/experience and recognition of limitations, added to customers not knowing much about the subject hence getting someone in.

I've said it before but the general public seem to take as read that anyone who calls them self an 'electrician' is competent to trade as one, and as mentioned is likely to rate an electrician on appearance - they might want someone to arrive on time driving a bright sunburst yellow van, wearing a shirt and tie, do exactly what the customer wants without trying to sell add-ons such as bonding and rcd protection, then get the vacuum cleaner out and clean their house.
On this basis a customer might be more likely to recommend an 'electrician' who until 6 weeks ago spent 20 years working on the customer service desk in Marks & Spencer, than one who left school at 16 to do an apprenticeship and work as an electrician on a building site for the next 10 years.

I suppose a 'solution' might be to promote the idea of hiring a 'JIB approved electrician' rather than necessarily a 'Part P registered electrician' - like them or not the JIB are all we've got right now.

 

[alarm man]

Hey, can you leave me out of this please!:waving:

quality man...:rofl:

 

[Big n Daft]

The words Domestic Installer make me puke and makes me boil with pure rage.
Cant watch this thread anymore, I now wont sleep as it is.uke::32::banghead::veryangry2::83:

 

[OllieNotts]

So can anyone reading this who wants to give a hard working student a chance to get in to the game, or even just some short term experience and let me shadow you then PLEASE pm me and I will give you a hand

 

[alarm man]

What annoys me about the short courses is that public and many employers dont see the difference. We`re all just electricians to them. My qualifications allow me to work as a spark but its my experience that makes me a good one.

agree,but why is it all wannabe sparks want to go domestic,i cant think of anything worse than house bashing,why dont they want to go industrial,swa,pyro,condiut tray and switchgear,wheres the new sparks in this enviroment coming from,i await tony's responce/rant on the matter..:shout:

 

[highspark]

The solution has been said advertise asking for JIB approved and part p registered lads. That way the qualifications needed are the real ones that take a few years!

 

[OllieNotts]

agree,but why is it all wannabe sparks want to go domestic,i cant think of anything worse than house bashing,why dont they want to go industrial,swa,pyro,condiut tray and switchgear,wheres the new sparks in this enviroment coming from,i await tony's responce/rant on the matter..:shout:

I would love to stay away from house bashing but I have read on here it is nigh on impossible to get in to industrial these days. I will do anything to get a chance to learn in any sector, commercial and/or domestic seem to be the way a lot of firms advertise here in Nottingham.
How do I get contacts? Can anyone here give me leads? please...pretty please with sugar on top....

 

[grimysparks80]

The words Domestic Installer make me puke and makes me boil with pure rage.
Cant watch this thread anymore, I now wont sleep as it is.uke::32::banghead::veryangry2::83:

Lol. Quick everyone. send him a PM with the heading Domestic installer:troll:

 

[OllieNotts]

The solution has been said advertise asking for JIB approved and part p registered lads. That way the qualifications needed are the real ones that take a few years!

The JIB card is something I really want to aim for, but my college are telling the students "you dont need a JIB card to earn money in this game". One told lads they will walk out next year on £40 an hour self emplyed earning 60k a year S/E haha

 

[i=p/u]

one more year get my jib card, gonna pay £10 quid for adverisement in my local paper to advertise for jib sparks and tell them the importance of being jib qualified, roll on a year .. we can defeat them together.. kepp the enimies close

 

[alarm man]

The JIB card is something I really want to aim for, but my college are telling the students "you dont need a JIB card to earn money in this game". One told lads they will walk out next year on £40 self emplyed earning 60k a year S/E haha

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

 

[smiley1609]

i dont think that most forum members here are tarring all with the same brush.....but these 5 week wonders keep coming in here asking the most base questions on how to do stuff that usually start with the eternal words "i`m an electrician"...or something like that....can get really annoying.....basic stuff about where and where not to apply diversity,...."what size MCB should i use"....this without any attempt at looking through the relevent books first ....no...non of that....its straight in here...and so someone has to answer thise questions just because they know the anser and did their homework........really irritating stuff like that....

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

 

[alarm man]

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

to be fair man,a few months you wont know much more than you do now,and im a believer in you learn something new everyday

 

[OllieNotts]

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

I know, I have been reading. It seems that while all industries feel the pinch the men at the top dont give up their share of the money and just keeping getting richer. Meh.
And anyone who missed my earlier post, I am free for training wed-sun till june then full time till sept when I do level 3

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I know, I have been reading. It seems that while all industries feel the pinch the men at the top dont give up their share of the money and just keeping getting richer. Meh.
And anyone who missed my earlier post, I am free for training wed-sun till june then full time till sept when I do level 3

Without saying the area you live, the less likely you are to get a response.

 

[OllieNotts]

Without saying the area you live, the less likely you are to get a response.

OllieNotts as in Nottingham, thought the clue was in the name sorry. Nottingham or Derby are both accessible

 

[Adam W]

a jib card is all good and well,but without the rates and benefits it should carry its as good as your blockbuster card,but thats another thread.

This isn't about companies paying JIB rates, it's about domestic customers knowing that they are employing a qualified tradesman.

 

[alarm man]

This isn't about companies paying JIB rates, it's about domestic customers knowing that they are employing a qualified tradesman.

well a-they dont want too,b-and they dont know...

 

[ample current]

I would dearly loooove to work along side a fully qualified spark to learn onsite to gain some hands on experiance and guidence. nothing would please me more, even if it was for one day a week.


any one on here in the Bristol area want a part time, very hard working, reliable, enthusiastic, conscientious worker

 

[ipf]

fair enough guys...

I do also tend to agree with many of the comments on this subject as well...there are many out there that don't have a clue...and as you have suggested, in the main forum there are often some totally ridiculous questions being asked by guys that quite obviously don't have any idea about the subject !

I entirely agree with earlier posts about some form of practical training...i.e. drilling joists...chasing walls... and although these classroom courses for the building regs will help to understand the Part A requirements for depth of chases... allowable areas to drill joists...Part M requirements for mobility...and bathroom zonal restrictions...and many other regulations... however, these courses don't give a full knowledge of the execution of these tasks !

When I finish my current job...I am luck enough to have the possibility to work alongside a fully trained spark...and a good redundancy package to allow me to get by on a minimal wage for some time...although to have a full apprenticeship at my age and with mortgage and family commitments would be an impossibility !

I hope that within a few month period, that it should give me enough knowledge and know how...to at least be able to make an informed decision whether this is going to be the right industry for me !

Heck, after doing the job for a few months...I might realise that I do not wish to spend the rest of my days crawling around roof spaces...and lifting floorboards !

Try crawling under floorboards and lifting roof slates.
:sweatdrop:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

thing is n all is you get folk going through the likes of ratedpeople...and other parasites like that....wanting stuff doing for practically nowt and in unrealistic timeframes........they dont help themselves do they......

 

[sparkiegaz]

customers dont give crap about badges fancy cert coloured cards etc etc all they want is cheap,,,,,cheapest feller gets the job,,,,,as long as the lights turn on and off when asked and the tv can work from the white thingy in the wall there happy look at cowboy builders on channel five bet the home owners went with the cheapest quote and ended up in the mess on all of them,,