Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[Welchyboy]

theres nothing wrong with being inexperienced or learning something new in the correct environment but it seems all the mid-life career changers expect togo out, do a short course and start there own self employed business, but this is only beacuse the training centres have led them to believe, in 5 weeks they will be up and running and earning silly money, its their fault this situation has come about

But to be honest its such a steep learning curve going self employed, even when you are properly trained and do know what your doin, so im really not bothered about the competition they pose, as lately it seems i have been getting more work from putting their messes right

I had an arguement with one of these chappies over the phone a little while back as i had seen his attempt at a consumer unit change at a customers house and told her how dangerous it was and she needs to get it sorted
(i assumed her husband had put it in himself)Reversed polarity at meter, exposed live parts, to name a few of the worst things
she told me an electrician had recently installed it, and she would be speaking to him.

Anyway he called me a few days later full of confidence and bravado, spouting his mouth off at me........after i calmly told him a few major problems that he had overlooked and told him he ought to check his liability insurance was up to date, he went quiet

I had a call from her a few days later to quote to reinstall the job, he had sent her a full refund!

so in a way if a decent spark had done that job first off i would have lost out!

Sad thing is if the worst had happened, its the customer that cops it!

 

[highspark]

Umm.. no sarcasm intended but is that not the JIB gold card..?

No because customers are not aware of what a JIB card is. All they understand is PART P! and to be PART P all you need is 17th and a 5 week wonder course!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

theres nothing wrong with being inexperienced or learning something new in the correct environment but it seems all the mid-life career changers expect togo out, do a short course and start there own self employed business, but this is only beacuse the training centres have led them to believe, in 5 weeks they will be up and running and earning silly money, its their fault this situation has come about

But to be honest its such a steep learning curve going self employed, even when you are properly trained and do know what your doin, so im really not bothered about the competition they pose, as lately it seems i have been getting more work from putting their messes right

I had an arguement with one of these chappies over the phone a little while back as i had seen his attempt at a consumer unit change at a customers house and told her how dangerous it was and she needs to get it sorted
(i assumed her husband had put it in himself)Reversed polarity at meter, exposed live parts, to name a few of the worst things
she told me an electrician had recently installed it, and she would be speaking to him.

Anyway he called me a few days later full of confidence and bravado, spouting his mouth off at me........after i calmly told him a few major problems that he had overlooked and told him he ought to check his liability insurance was up to date, he went quiet

I had a call from her a few days later to quote to reinstall the job, he had sent her a full refund!

so in a way if a decent spark had done that job first off i would have lost out!

Sad thing is if the worst had happened, its the customer that cops it!

I like these practising Electrical Trainee that have NO IDEA at all, because then recommendation for a decent electrician leads on to me, and I go and do the job properly.

What I really do not understand is that although someone can pass the BS7671 and 2391 in a classroom has no idea on how to remove floor boards, chase a wall use a hammer and chisel. They should not be allowed out on their own without some sort of general skills, there should be a bolt on course that covers that, a bit like the theory and practical driving test.

 

[highspark]

I like these practising Electrical Trainee that have NO IDEA at all, because then recommendation for a decent electrician leads on to me, and I go and do the job properly.What I really do not understand is that although someone can pass the BS7671 and 2391 in a classroom has no idea on how to remove floor boards, chase a wall use a hammer and chisel. They should not be allowed out on their own without some sort of general skills, there should be a bolt on course that covers that, a bit like the theory and practical driving test.

Which is the NVQ3

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I should have said a compulsory bolt on practical course that gives you a part 2 to the BS7671 cert that states you have basic practical ability to carry out domestic work. Like the 2391, you have not passed unless you have passed both parts.

 

[highspark]

I should have said a compulsory bolt on practical course that gives you a part 2 to the BS7671 cert that states you have basic practical ability to carry out domestic work. Like the 2391, you have not passed unless you have passed both parts.

By what you are saying - its already set up. These 5 week courses are practical courses that state you have basic practical ability. Its a load of crap. If you are serious about being an electrician do the tech certs and the NVQ3! Regarding the 2391 2391-10 and 2391-20 ar completely different matters. The -10 is inspection and testing ( the one most employers like you to have and the -20 is a design course. I don't agree on you haven't passed if you don't have both. They cover different areas. Th-10 is the main one which proves you can inspect and test. If you want to further your knowledge do the -20

 

[Welchyboy]

bolt on course on chasing walls!

Maybe that would be a good idea as i have seen an 'electrician' rewiring a kitchen in a house chasing in new conduit and singles into a stud wall with a hammer and chisel, i was only there to wire the heating for the plumber that i do bits for, he asked if i wanted to see something funny...... go down stairs and look through the kitchen door....

Apparently he has just qualified, sadly i didnt get to re-install that job though!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

By what you are saying - its already set up. These 5 week courses are practical courses that state you have basic practical ability. Its a load of crap. If you are serious about being an electrician do the tech certs and the NVQ3! Regarding the 2391 2391-10 and 2391-20 ar completely different matters. The -10 is inspection and testing ( the one most employers like you to have and the -20 is a design course. I don't agree on you haven't passed if you don't have both. They cover different areas. Th-10 is the main one which proves you can inspect and test. If you want to further your knowledge do the -20

You have taken it wrong, I was referring to non electrical practical skills like lifting floor boards chasing etc, practical basic stuff that you would have done whilst as an apprentice that you don't do on a blended learning course.

 

[ample current]

That's just the point, ....in the past you couldn't become an electrician without experience on the the job. When you had finished your training, you could in fact work in any domain be it domestic, commercial or industrial, ...It was called serving an apprenticeship!!!

What your suggesting is, ...After doing a Electrical Trainee course, that you practice at being an electrician by working in clients houses etc, without any form of supervision. I don't know about what the others think here, but there has to be something very Wrong in that philosophy of gaining experience!!

What would your suggestion be then? I am 43 years old (and to old to serve an apprenticeship) and part way through "my training" and when I finish I will have taken my 2391. so how else do i get experience as i want to do a perfect safe job every time without fail or compromise. I need to start somewhere.

I realise there are some people out there blagging it and i agree with you entirely about that, but please dont tar us all with the same brush.

 

[Engineer54]

What would your suggestion be then? I am 43 years old (and to old to serve an apprenticeship) and part way through "my training" and when I finish I will have taken my 2391. so how else do i get experience as i want to do a perfect safe job every time without fail or compromise. I need to start somewhere.

I realise there are some people out there blagging it and i agree with you entirely about that, but please dont tar us all with the same brush.

If are your on, one of these joke Electrical Trainee courses, get yourself a job as a trainee or mate, for a good period of time. Anything that will give you the much needed working experience to be competent to go into customers houses and undertake work unsupervised!!

What the industry shouldn't be doing, is lowering standards to accommodate non competent poorly trained wannabe electricians. That doesn't serve anyone's best interests, least of all the electrical industry...

 

[grimysparks80]

I agree. if id just done my 3 years of college id have been rubbish. I learned the important stuff from other sparks onsite. I dont think anyone should be working unsupervised with no onsite experience. I dont have anything against people who do the short courses. I just think a distinction should be made between them and apprentices with 3+ years experience of real work.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

What hasnt been mentioned are the hundreds if not thousands of "sparkys" that have no experience at all, have never attended even a 5 DAY course, have no insurance, not registered, pay no tax and issue no certification & do no testing.

Now, are they worse?

Just a thought

 

[grimysparks80]

the trouble is, no matter what rules are brought in, those guys will always ignore them. In a way all new rules/regs fees ect are just punishing the legit sparkies and making them less able to compete with those who dont care about rules and dont have to pay fees

 

[Superspark23]

I've worked for one of these 5weeks wonders. Basicly i was made redundant in 2010 midway through my apprenticeship my company went into administration. Then quickly found another job with a 5 week wonder company. It soon came to me that the my boss didn't know what he was talking about. But customers loved him because he came across confident and kept true to his work on when we would turn up ect. and the cost of the jobs. He paid me min wage because i was still in training, but didn't want me to continue my nvq and tried to block it, so i left because of that. Then he paid his other electrician £6.50ph ! all he had done was 2330 level 2 and 3 no NVQ. In the 3 months i worked for him, he told us to do in my eyes absolutely dangerous things, he would feed a 2nd consumer unit in the loft using 10mm T&E, some times 6mm from down stairs consumer unit, but instead of fusing it down properly he just shoved it in with the main tails on the main switch, the reason for that he said was because if he put a breaker on the board he'd responsible for the whole installation! Never tested for main bonding as he didn't see the point. Never used grommets, or wouldn't even file sharp edges off trunking! plastic or metal. I have no idea how this guy is aloud to trade. Absolute liability. Got my self out of their asap, but when i attended another interview they told me they knew him very well and he was an actor up to 5 years ago! I Know work for a proper firm with proper sparks and gaining proper training and experience

 

[OllieNotts]

It is funny really as I dont think the Electrical Trainee boys are the only ones to worry about. I was told on my first day of college by the lecturer(now left for a Electrical Trainee training centre) that we do this year on level 2 and next year on level 3 and then we can buy a van, do the add on courses and we are ready to go start work in peoples homes! I tried to challenge him which he wasnt thrilled with.
I have absolutely no intention of going it alone once I have my level 2 and 3, and right now I cant buy work from agencies as a HGV driver and I cant get work for free with an electrician as a mate/labourer/trainee so I am sat at home now most days getting rather fed up with life. The electrical trade and transport industry are both on their knees it appears, and as I have one hand in one and trying to get my hand in the other it leaves me wondering where I went so wrong with it all. Tomorrow is another day though eh?