Unusual lighting wiring?

[TheJack]

Hi. Today I was at a friend's house having a look at a couple of lights that weren't working (turned out that quite simply one of the neutrals had worked its way free in the first rose).

It was all too tight to see for definite, but I think the wiring was basically as per the drawing I have attached.

Could this be correct? In the "old days" was there a 3 core cable that was red/blue/black/yellow???

If so is this method common? I've only been taught loop in at the rose, or loop in at the switch (or JB method) so it's been a real headscratcher to try and work out.

 

[westward10]

Those aren't conventional colours for a three core cable. There is a possibility it is a modular system which used all sorts of colour combinations.

 

[TheJack]

Ah OK. So it's possible there was a red/blue/black/yellow?

How about this wiring design? Is it common / unusual in the real world?

 

[loz2754]

I have never seen anyone use the middle terminal of a ceiling rose as a joint for the second switched line feeding the second light. It's not conventional and at first glance quite confusing.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Ah OK. So it's possible there was a red/blue/black/yellow?

There was 3 core +e cable in common use ('phase' colours of the period) pre 2006. I've used it, but personally not come across 4 core +e with a black as well. It makes sense though for colours of the time.


PS The 4 core existed as SWA as well

 

[brianmoooore]

I have never seen anyone use the middle terminal of a ceiling rose as a joint for the second switched line feeding the second light. It's not conventional and at first glance quite confusing.

Really? I've tended to work mainly in houses with large rooms (farmhouses), and have often used the middle terminal for just that in bedrooms with two main lights.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Really? I've tended to work mainly in houses with large rooms (farmhouses), and have often used the middle terminal for just that in bedrooms with two main lights.

Yes , I was going to say , have done this multiple times myself and also seen it done existing by others, it's handy for keeping number of cables down in locations where routing of cables is difficult , it's also pretty straightforward to work out what's going on, with a bit of basic testing, even if you have never seen it before. Additionally, can't see the black core in the '3 core' in the OPs drawing , so just standard old skool colours really...Is it really 20 yrs since the colours changed? makes me feel old..

 

[loz2754]

Every day's a school day. Even at my age. It's actually a good idea to use the loop terminal in the rose in that way.

 

[TheJack]

Yes , I was going to say , have done this multiple times myself and also seen it done existing by others, it's handy for keeping number of cables down in locations where routing of cables is difficult , it's also pretty straightforward to work out what's going on, with a bit of basic testing, even if you have never seen it before. Additionally, can't see the black core in the '3 core' in the OPs drawing , so just standard old skool colours really...Is it really 20 yrs since the colours changed? makes me feel old..

Hi mate. TBH the drawing above was done a few hours later from memory so I could very well be wrong on the colours. What were the old skool 3 core colours?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Hi mate. TBH the drawing above was done a few hours later from memory so I could very well be wrong on the colours. What were the old skool 3 core colours?

I think the drawing is probably correct without the extra black..old colours are as above, Red, Yellow, Blue corresponding to the current Brown, Black, Grey (L1,L2,L3) although confusingly that image shown by @Avo Mk8 is not quite right methinks..!

 

[Avo Mk8]

I think the drawing is probably correct without the extra black..old colours are as above, Red, Yellow, Blue corresponding to the current Brown, Black, Grey (L1,L2,L3) although confusingly that image shown by @Avo Mk8 is not quite right methinks..!

Go on - you've got me - what's not right? (apart from 'flexibale' , and cpc now apparently being insulated g/y!)
I just looked for a quick illustration to reassure the OP there was nothing unusual about the cable. You can't believe everything you find, but tbh I hadn't spotted a problem

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Go on - you've got me - what's not right? (apart from 'flexibale' , and cpc now apparently being insulated g/y!)
I just looked for a quick illustration to reassure the OP there was nothing unusual about the cable. You can't believe everything you find, but tbh I hadn't spotted a problem

They're just in the wrong order in the cable, standard 3c flat cable is , brown, black, cpc, grey..

 

[littlespark]

They're just in the wrong order in the cable, standard 3c flat cable is , brown, black, cpc, grey..

and the old colours are red yellow cpc blue…. Diagram has yellow and blue reversed.

If you want to go further back, it was red white and blue.


Yes… 20 years. Do they teach the old colours at all now, or just refer to the harmonised colours all the time.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

and the old colours are red yellow cpc blue…. Diagram has yellow and blue reversed.

If you want to go further back, it was red white and blue.


Yes… 20 years. Do they teach the old colours at all now, or just refer to the harmonised colours all the time.

Yes still see the odd red white and blue out in the wild, usually without cpc, iirc that colour code was only used for a short time...could be wrong..
I remember thinking at the time the colours changed that there would be confusion down the line, the classic for me is when you have a lighting JB typically in a loft where there might be old and new colours, fan supplies, 2 way switching etc all coming together...random sleeving on some conductors (brown on red for instance). Going by the book old blacks would still need sleeving red to indicate line but a newly installed black would be sleeved brown..etc etc!! I tend to use Wagobox XLs in these cases now and don't use any sleeving at all just label the connector on the lid...sue me!