Using terminal blocks within a CU

S

se7aq

Can you use terminal blocks within a CU if cable is not long enough to be wired in numbered order, or the main bonding is not long enought to reach main bonding terminal in CU..?

Could this cause problems for future electricians if the neutrals are not in numbered order..? This may need to happen to ALL cables within CU.

Thanks in advance for your feedback best sarcastic answer wins a Mars Bar but sensible answers also welcome.
 
This has been covered quite extensively, and the search function will give you lots of opinions...
However, to save you time....
Yes, you can use block within a CU, but it will look like a dog's dinner. The generally preferred option is to either take your cables into an enclosure, connect them neatly in din-rail connections and then feed new cables into the CU, or alternatively, some electricians like to extend existing cables by crimping and heat-sleeving. I would only recommend this method if you have good quality crimps and ratchet crimping pliers.
The other option which isn't ideal, but looks better than terminal block, is to use Wagos.
Main bonding should be continuous. The only way to extend this is with soldering or crimping.
Sorry if this wasn't sarcastic enough :)
 
Are you honestly considering using terminal blocks in a CU to extend conductors in a CU?? lol!!
 
Adaptable box and din rail reigns supreme here. Chances are the OP is working from a 10way DB that is already filled to the teeth. Nice and neat, sweet to the beat.
 
sparkymalarky said:
Adaptable box and din rail reigns supreme here. Chances are the OP is working from a 10way DB that is already filled to the teeth. Nice and neat, sweet to the beat.
Click to expand...

No no no!
Who wants a great big box next to their CU/DB?
Neat crimp and shrink is much better.


edit re below...

and non domestic! :-)
 
It's an easy decision for me:-

I use those butt crimps with a glue lined heat shrink covering and a quality pair of crimping pliers.

Good joint which is not obtrusive!
 
line butt connectors for up to 2.5mm for me. push-in and only slightly more bulky than a crimp.
 
lol i had a niceic electrician tell me solder is rated at 2A :dizzy2: when i removed his connectors blocks and soldered the wires he had cut too short in the first place i was like solder with 2A rating are you for real :83::banghead:
 
telectrix said:
line butt connectors for up to 2.5mm for me. push-in and only slightly more bulky than a crimp.
Click to expand...

Same, exactly my method tel.

Although in fairness i can't say i haven't used a chock-block in the past, because unfortunatley i have (once or twice) - many'o'year ago. Wouldn't use them now, not ever.

Time to confess lads - guarantee most of you have used the dreaded chock-block in a CU at somepoint for a very quick unprofessional fix at least once in your careers lol.
 
sajeel said:
lol i had a niceic electrician tell me solder is rated at 2A :dizzy2: when i removed his connectors blocks and soldered the wires he had cut too short in the first place i was like solder with 2A rating are you for real :83::banghead:
Click to expand...
You done what!!! We dont use solder on mains wiring because conductors can have a high operating temperature as stated in BS7671. this can cause the solder to soften and the joint to fail. Soldering does not constitute a sound electrical and mechanical joint as per the regs.... so what professional body are you a member of?? I hope your work wasnt in a special location!!
 
John Toomey said:
You done what!!! We dont use solder on mains wiring because conductors can have a high operating temperature as stated in BS7671. this can cause the solder to soften and the joint to fail. Soldering does not constitute a sound electrical and mechanical joint as per the regs.... so what professional body are you a member of?? I hope your work wasnt in a special location!!
Click to expand...

Solder doesn't start to soften until it reaches around 183 degrees celsius, so not sure what temperatures you expect your cables to run at!

526.3 (iv) covers the use of soldered joints for MF connections.
 
Guitarist said:
Solder doesn't start to soften until it reaches around 183 degrees celsius, so not sure what temperatures you expect your cables to run at!

526.3 (iv) covers the use of soldered joints for MF connections.
Click to expand...

Depending on the type of solder!! If you was carrying out an EICR how could you know? It is not a mechanically sound connection unless it is mechanically sound!
Surely you know the regs number for all joints must be electrically and mechanically sound :)
Fair if enough if you have done the joint yourself and you know that the solder has fully run around all surfaces but what is the melting point of the insulation then, its a lot less than your quoted 183 celsius, believe me I have come across a multitude of diy soldered joints that do not comply with either electrically or mechanically sound!! You need to maintain the integrity of the insulation, start heating small amounts of copper to 183 degrees and the insulation is going to be damaged very close to the joint, or just cut it back a foot or so then heat shrink it...lol
Have you tried soldering upwards from a 4mm stranded recently then, send me some pics please :)
When there are so many types of compliant connector available on the market why would you ever think of getting your soldering iron and extension lead out?? And seeing as the thread was originally about joints in a cu youd have to get your lovely gas iron out causing more risk to the surrounding plastic. Imagine how long it would take to solder enough cables even for a small 8 way..also what are you going to do before you solder the conductors to hold them together , twist them together??? Grow up, use a connector!!!:dizzy2:
 
I wouldnt put them in a c/u. I like to make my c/u a work of art ;) and putting blocks in them would be like chucking paint over a bently.
 
John Toomey said:
Depending on the type of solder!! If you was carrying out an EICR how could you know? It is not a mechanically sound connection unless it is mechanically sound!
Surely you know the regs number for all joints must be electrically and mechanically sound :)
Fair if enough if you have done the joint yourself and you know that the solder has fully run around all surfaces but what is the melting point of the insulation then, its a lot less than your quoted 183 celsius, believe me I have come across a multitude of diy soldered joints that do not comply with either electrically or mechanically sound!! You need to maintain the integrity of the insulation, start heating small amounts of copper to 183 degrees and the insulation is going to be damaged very close to the joint, or just cut it back a foot or so then heat shrink it...lol
Have you tried soldering upwards from a 4mm stranded recently then, send me some pics please :)
When there are so many types of compliant connector available on the market why would you ever think of getting your soldering iron and extension lead out?? And seeing as the thread was originally about joints in a cu youd have to get your lovely gas iron out causing more risk to the surrounding plastic. Imagine how long it would take to solder enough cables even for a small 8 way..also what are you going to do before you solder the conductors to hold them together , twist them together??? Grow up, use a connector!!!:dizzy2:
Click to expand...

Oh dear...where to begin....
Solder has been used for many decades in mains wiring and that's a fact. At no point did I say that I would personally solder cables within a CU, just that it's an option if you want to go down that route.
As for "growing up".... I think after being in the profession for over 20 years, most of it industrial, I've done most of my growing up, and seen most things.
Anyway, we weren't talking about carrying out an EICR and therefore not knowing what type of solder was used, we were discussing ways of extending cables ourselves. Just for the record, it is possible to solder cable without having to heatshrink "a foot or so".
I would respectfully suggest that as a new member, you don't assume too much when making statements. Have a good day :)
 
Maybe he was like it in the sense of having a short fuse with a low melting point or maybe he was just con fused
 
Maybe he was like it in the sense of having a short fuse with a low melting point or maybe he was just con fused
 
trev said:
Ah but his post said I iwas like..are you for real"
Click to expand...


Nah his quote said "i was like solder with 2A rating are you for real"


This is why we have so many interpretations of the regs :) Even the living language is back to front and upside down and that's before we get to punctuation :)

Just thinking wicked is now good a hot rod is now cool and even screws that are loose can be tightened both up and down and application forms can be filled in or out these days.


​
 
This forum is great although some people are helpful, some arrogant and some plain rude. One should not assume and jump to conclusion I spent 3 years at college soldering so have probably spent more time soldering than most sparks as I studied electronics servicing and have a diploma In electronics aside from my electric qualifications.
 
sajeel said:
This forum is great although some people are helpful, some arrogant and some plain rude. One should not assume and jump to conclusion I spent 3 years at college soldering so have probably spent more time soldering than most sparks as I studied electronics servicing and have a diploma In electronics aside from my electric qualifications.
Click to expand...

Hi sajeel
I don't think you need to take any comments personally. On every forum that I have been on there is always a mix of people with their own ideas and personalities just like everywhere else. I for one don't comment to insult people but as the main question of the thread has already been answered and I have been reminded to use my membership or loose it I found it a good place to start a few comments.

From my experience I have seen soldered joints ranging from as good as you will ever get to worse than spit although the techie word would be a dry joint. As far as sparks are concerned you are probably right when it comes to soldering skills as most of the good ones (as in trained correctly) very rarely use the art after the mandatory ohms law triangle soldering exercise.

You are right too about making assumptions the old saying is that making them makes an --- out of u and me :)

Quoting qualifications though does not prove practical abilities though any more than holing a part p qualification makes a cowboy kitchen fitter an electrician. My advice though for what it is worth is as above i.e. don't take anything personally just look for the gems that lay beneath the rubbish.
Best wishes
Vince
 
You say that they are not long enough to be put in numbered order ? I'm now presuming that they will reach the terminal bar but not where you would like them, get your self some numbers and slip them on and connect them where they reach
 
princeofsparks said:
Hi sajeel
I don't think you need to take any comments personally. On every forum that I have been on there is always a mix of people with their own ideas and personalities just like everywhere else. I for one don't comment to insult people but as the main question of the thread has already been answered and I have been reminded to use my membership or loose it I found it a good place to start a few comments.

From my experience I have seen soldered joints ranging from as good as you will ever get to worse than spit although the techie word would be a dry joint. As far as sparks are concerned you are probably right when it comes to soldering skills as most of the good ones (as in trained correctly) very rarely use the art after the mandatory ohms law triangle soldering exercise.

You are right too about making assumptions the old saying is that making them makes an --- out of u and me :)

Quoting qualifications though does not prove practical abilities though any more than holing a part p qualification makes a cowboy kitchen fitter an electrician. My advice though for what it is worth is as above i.e. don't take anything personally just look for the gems that lay beneath the rubbish.
Best wishes
Vince
Click to expand...

Thank you princeofsparks i have sent friend request. Its true there is a mixture of people on every forum.
 
If we put our heads together we will mastermind and the product will be more than the sum of the individual parts :)

If everyone shares in the forums imagine what we all can get from it!
 
trev said:
Sorry for being the grammar police but it's a massive pet hate of mine. You weren't like anything, you may have thought or said something but you weren't like it
:)
Click to expand...
Had to smirk that to show appreciation of this I pressed the "like" button. :)
 
There is nothing in the regs to say you can't use connector blocks in an enclosure which is accessible for inspection and testing purposes.

IMO, It looks ruff .

There are contradicting veiws about crimping solid core conductors. Solder could be used but its not electronic low current applications here so unless the joint is first made off to be mechanically sound and then soldered and covered with heat shrink, I would think it would be unsuitable.
 
The trouble with soldered joints is they dont really have a raited current! A bit of oil/ crap on the joint and it may look ok but wont draw any current. Do you lay the conductors end to end? or side by side? If side by side do we solder a one inch joint or longer? whats the current carrying capacity of 2 x 2.5mm solid core conductors soldered side by side an inch long?? Does it allow greater current carrying capacity if layed 2" side by side and soldered? What if theres crap in the joint? do we derate the joint by X factor??

Its a block or crimp conector only for me, if you solder then theres two many varibles.. (A Electronics hobiest (i know a dry joint when i see one))
 
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Using terminal blocks within a CU
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