Vettels reaction on hamilton in azerbarjain race

[Zerax]

There’s some scudulkery going on, much like the Ferrari fuel thing, swept under the carpet

That's a hell of a fire risk !

 

[Lister1987]

That's a hell of a fire risk !

It's alright; Section 442 has that covered.....what do you mean wrong regs? THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

 

[kropaske]

They could have red-flagged the race when the Latifi crash happened... but that's highly irregular for such a 'simple' crash. Red flagging a race is only done if they really really have to. Red flagging would have allowed all cars to change tyres though, so from that perspective, the RD would have contravened less rules than what his actual actions did.

They could not bring the red flag as you clearly explained. Red flag is for a specific safety reasons and not to allow all cars to change tyres or make the race little bit more fair for some drivers.


The decision on what to do or not to do should never include consideration of who may win or lose... it just has to be fair for everyone.

You are absolutely right on first part but there is no way that any decisions made by RD will be fair for all drivers/teams no matter how hard he will try, there will always be someone that will loose out which is always the case in situations with SC or VSC. He based his decisions on safety and not on how to make the race fair back again after SC.

So if sticking to the rules meant that it was a safety car finish... then so be it... that's what the rules say.

How is safety car finish sticking to the rules if track is clear and its safe to race that would be the opposite.

 

[Midwest]

But Mercedes decided on their tactics based on the rules, and what previously MM had said about ALL lapped cars, unlapping themselves & SC procedure; LH race engineer said that to him, 'the race will finish under the safety car'.

MM changed his mind twice, no cars will unlap, then after pressure from from CH, he let some unlap themselves. Perhaps he did that because he had previously had pressure from TW.

Lets face it referees make wrong decisions all the time; 'they' just have to accept he messed up. I don't think it should change the result, just get a new RD; MM hasn't been strong all season.

 

[Midwest]

'Max, you might be WDC, but please address me by my correct title when speaking to me; either Sir Lewis or just Sir'.

 

[mattg4321]

It’s all about consistency. Those defending the RD and his actions make good points, but decisions were made that have never been made before and procedures changed and precedents not followed. It was a farce.

How is a team meant to get their strategy right if there’s no consistency in the decision making?

If it had always been up to the RD (rather than an established precedent) which lapped cars were let through and at what point the safety car would then go in, then Merc may have made a different strategy call. They probably didn’t expect the decision making to be different just because there was so much riding on those last few laps too.

 

[kropaske]

I don't know why you keep mention this strategy calls based on rules and precedense. No matter what decision RD would make, merc would do excacly the same thing which was not to stop Sir Lewis.
But lets analyse this:
Latify crashes, SC out, at this point nobody's know if they will manage to restart or not, Max 10s being Sir Lewis who passing Latifi's wreck and approaching last corner, at that point he knows he is screwed and this, what would appear as easy win start slip away. If they pit, Max will stay out and they will loose track position, if race does not restart game over for merc, if they restart it would be down to Lewis to pass Max so merc do right call not to pit.
Max then pit as he would do opposite to what would merc do, they have to gamble.
At next lap cars are much closer together and if merc decide to pit they would lost not 1 but potentially more places so merc do right thing not to pit again. From now on only thing merc can do is pray so the race will not reatart, sadly for them that was not the case.
Those decisions were the only logical decisions they could make regardless of what RD or other stewards would do and what regulations state.
Merc was simply very, very unlucky.

IMHO wrong decisions has been made earlier on. I think merc should keep Lewis out when Max pit 1st time. They had approx 6s gap so they could easily run at least 2-3 laps. With Lewis pace there was high chance that he would be on par even on slightly worn tyres. This could play to his advantage later in the race, and if he would be way to slow they could bring him in next lap so no harm done. But they did not even tried that.
Second wrong decision was not to pit under VSC later in the race but this was bit more riskier as redbull could take track position at the time but then Lewis already complained about the tyres.

This is the type of races I want to see where emotions running high, adrenaline level are sky high there is excitements and drama, and I don't care who came victorious at the end. On this occasion was Max, but next time maybe Lewis or even someone else. I already looking forward to next season and to see how teams are prepared for quite a big changes to the car.

 

[Zerax]

kropaske... you need to realise that all F1 teams employ highly skilled and very clever people to work out strategy. Yes, there are situations where there is no right or wrong answer and it's 50/50 on what they do... but for the vast majority of cases, the computer modelling will tell them the optimal option. So... whilst it's fun to hear all your theories about what they should or should not have done... I suspect they still knew better.

The reason why it went wrong for Hamilton is solely because the RD decided to go against the rule book (that everyone, including RB were working to) and his own advice from the Eifel GP last year... to come up with his own rules. That threw everybody !!!

Personally, I'd like to know why he did it. What was going through his head at that time ? Did he have any pressure from Liberty Media (who own F1) ? What pressure did he have from the FIA ? Why did Horner tell him "... we only need one lap" ? One lap for what ? To win the race ? Exactly why did the FIA change the rules for 2021 to impede only 2 teams (Merc & Aston Martin) ? Why did he not black flag Verstappen for that 'brake test' stunt in the last GP ? Why has Verstappen been allowed to get away with some very dangerous driving all season ?

You may like these sort of races... but for me... F1 is starting to smell very highly of corruption... and that's not good for any sport ! Not sure I'll be following it next season, unless there's some pretty massive changes at the FIA.

 

[Midwest]

Read this posted elsewhere. Not sure if the author is real, or the first few paragraphs are correct legal terminology, but here it is;

Analysing the FIA Rulebook after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix — A Lawyers Perspective

So it’s finally over. Or is it? Whilst we are in limbo over whether Mercedes will actually appeal the decision of the stewards, it is…

medium.com

 

[kropaske]

Zerax, I think it's time to leave it at that and agree to dissagre. We clearly see and interpret things in slightly different way. This whole situation will be going on for quite some time i suspect. Media will exagerrate everything anyway.

However I don't think its fair you mention CH comment as TW was doing the same, they all play their games.

And why would you even bring FIA new rules. Another conspiracy against merc. Fia work on this since 2017 and everybody knew that. The change that was introduced was only part of the bigger package that we will see next year which was delayed because of covid.

And yes Max is a hard racer and so is Lewis, they both prove it and they both did some stupid things this year and in previous seasons.

I hope you will still watch next season so we can have some more debates
And if I would worry about corruption I would stop watching F1 long time ago and probably a lot other sports for that matter.

 

[Midwest]

See Mercedes have withdrawn appeal procedure, allegedly because LH did not want to win WDC via the courts.

Whilst LH has done some naughty things, he’s not in the same league as Max. Hope they do something about that in any enquiry by the FIA, for the future.

 

[Zerax]

Yeah... I just read about the withdrawal of appeal. I think that Mercedes realised that it would take a hell of a battle to win (I think nobody ever has ??) and if they did win, then they'd be portrayed in the media as sore losers, who only won because they did it in the courts etc etc. Interesting legal analysis you posted up earlier... makes it crystal clear to me.

I hope that a deal has been done for Masi to go and some specific amendments to the rules... like "the RD must stick to the rules". But I don't think that'll ever happen !

 

[mattg4321]

I think it should still have gone to court, but not to reverse the WDC result. That would be ridiculous and unfair on MV who deserves it. It would’ve been good to shine a light on the FIA though and find out why those exceptional decisions were made at such an important point in the season.

 

[kropaske]

The only place they could take it would be International Court of Appeal made from FIA appointed members, so merc would have to convince FIA to go against FIA and that's a FIA rules, how convenient...

It looks like Toto and Lewis wont be participating in tonight's FIA gala, i hope they wont be punishing them (another FIA rule) as they suffer enough already.

I think i used way too many FIA in this post...

 

[Midwest]

If I was Lewis, I’d go, get tanked up, then stuck me leg out when Max was going onto the stage to receive his trophy.