Voltage Optimisation

[UNG]

Julian keep your head in the clouds and keep dreaming !!!!

 

[SolarCity]

Keep your head in the clouds and keep dreaming !!!!

And if Glen's experiment suggests that it works?

Some of the opposition to this is bordering on the dogmatic.

 

[Glen Powell]

Just thought though It will have to be hard wired, dont someone unplugging it to charge their mobile.

 

[Earthstore]

Make sure you use the right kind of light bulbs, or you may get some other law of physics pointed out why you test is flawed....

 

[brman]

I am not quite sure what UNG means about laws of physics. The laws of physics say it principle that it will work for a lot of loads. The only argument is whether the mix of loads and the efficiency of the converter will in practice show the affect. Unfortunately that is a lot down to the user so it is hard to get a definitive answer.

 

[Glen Powell]

As with the notice on the front page of this site there is no need for anyone getting personal, it is a scientific issue, I can see how this device will work it is very simple on certain aspects.

think back to school you have a light bulb where you can reduce the voltage and the light will dim but it will still work just not as bright, my concern is the efficiency in the way the voltage is reduced.

I can do a test on light bulbs and yes it will reduce your consumption of electricity but however it will also reduce the output of said device. if I do the same on a washing machine or a motor (AC) this will not happen as I do beleive on AC motors you can only modulate power to try and reduce power but in turn this will only do half the job.

I am a great beleiver in the Laws Of Physics however it is possible for the technology to reduce the voltage and current to the likes of lighting, etc. without massive effect.

 

[Dan the spark]

Hi guys, sorry to bring this thread back to life but I had a call today from a customer that has read about these vphase units and is asking me if I could install it. Reading thru the posts it looks like there are better ways to spend the money to save energy ie led lights.
The thing is this house isn't ur standard size, it's 8 bedroom gymnasium with saunas swimming pool etc so I was wondering if the returns mat be better on a house this size?
Also before I go too far, it has a 3phase supply so is there such a device or do u have to install one per phase.
Sorry again lads but just wanna do the best for the customer and don't wanna be seen to be installing something that isn't really gonna be making much savings.
Cheers, Dan

 

[spark 68]

If you have a sub board/s split into SP, then you could use one per sub-board (per phase), otherwise you will require a TP one (from a different maker).

The V-Phase unit also goes into bypass mode above 20A, there are better ones.

Like others on here, I consider these 'snake oil' and don't want to get drawn into the why's and wherefore's again.

I think there are some savings to be had mainly on incandescent lighting (just not what the manufacturer says!), but I just don't think the outlay is worth it, the money could be better spent IMO on greater savings such as LED lighting etc.

 

[Dan the spark]

Yeah saw that in reading the posts, I'm in te same opinion really, just thought I'd do a bit of research before going to try and explain to the customer, cheers for the reply

 

[Earthstore]

Dan, you can not install 3 separate units on a 3 phase system if there is equipment that is "3 phase", ie motors etc, because if one unit goes into bypass then you can get back feed to the other 2 because of unequal phases.
When you switch 3 phase supplies on or off, you should always switch all 3 at the same time if the phases are shared.

Voltis are going to produce a 3 phase unit which will operate all 3 phases at the same time, but may be around 12 months before it is available.

As pointed out before the vphase unit gets wired into the CU on dedicated circuits only, as the Voltis just goes into the tails so is a simple install, and all circuits run through it.
I hope this helps.

 

[brman]

i was at the grand designs show last week with my wife and some women tried to sell me a Voltis install for £900. She gave up pretty quick when I told her I was an electrician and I thought her prices were a bit on the steep side

Comparing the specs I noticed that vphase doesn't even run at 20A continuously. Anything above 2kW is the "short term active region". Which is probably another way of saying it starts to overheat pretty quickly and shuts itself down........
http://www.vphase.co.uk/getattachment/Trade-Zone/Info---Downloads/VPhase-Technical-Specification.pdf

 

[Earthstore]

£900... that is a healthy profit for an hours work...

 

[brman]

£900... that is a healthy profit for an hours work...

yes, maybe I should have got the stand next door and offered them for £800.

 

[sedgy34]

£900... that is a healthy profit for an hours work...[/QU

it is in sales

 

[spark 68]

Comparing the specs I noticed that vphase doesn't even run at 20A continuously. Anything above 2kW is the "short term active region". Which is probably another way of saying it starts to overheat pretty quickly and shuts itself down........
http://www.vphase.co.uk/getattachment/Trade-Zone/Info---Downloads/VPhase-Technical-Specification.pdf

One question I have asked repeatedly, but got no answer from the V-Phase rep, was what is the dissipation of the unit ? and what are the losses ?

We know nothing in this world is a 100% efficient, and so to drop the voltage down, it must be dissipating something.

He either could not, or would not answer me, and just kept banging on about 'potential savings', at this point I walked away.

 

[Earthstore]

As I understand, it is just a transformer, the Voltis goes into bypass if it is running at less than 0.8A, as the unit would cost more to run than it saves, anything over this then you are saving (apparently)

I hope this helps.

 

[brman]

One question I have asked repeatedly, but got no answer from the V-Phase rep, was what is the dissipation of the unit ? and what are the losses ?

We know nothing in this world is a 100% efficient, and so to drop the voltage down, it must be dissipating something.

He either could not, or would not answer me, and just kept banging on about 'potential savings', at this point I walked away.

As he was a sales man he probably didn't know what the word efficiency means

 

[yoz7241]

Guys,
As every one is quieter on PV we are looking at this type of product voltage optimisers.
We have 3 good SELECT approved sparkys and i dont want to lose any of them if we can sell this product through our client bank my understanding this is a 10 percent saving on electricity.
is any one installing what products are you using and what is a typical install time.


An idea of prices and pay back would be good (pmed of course).
Thanks with your responses.

wiggly

Im thinking exactly the same as you, ive narrowed down the products im going to be using to VPhase and voltis Home, im offering 2 types because Vphase you need a split board RCD and voltis home you dont which means ive covered everybodies CU set up. The only thing is that voltishome optimises the whole consumer unit which can mean everything with thermostatic controls will take longer to heat up obviously, vphase however is alot cheaper and only optimises the circuits where the savings can be made, price for product is £173.00 for VPhase and £325.00 for voltishome, vphase takes about 2 hours to install and voltishome is around an hour!!!

Let me know how your getting on, ive only just started off doing voltage optimisation and would be keen to know how well your doing!!!

Thanks

 

[screwdriver]

Im thinking exactly the same as you, ive narrowed down the products im going to be using to VPhase and voltis Home, im offering 2 types because Vphase you need a split board RCD and voltis home you dont which means ive covered everybodies CU set up. The only thing is that voltishome optimises the whole consumer unit which can mean everything with thermostatic controls will take longer to heat up obviously, vphase however is alot cheaper and only optimises the circuits where the savings can be made, price for product is £173.00 for VPhase and £325.00 for voltishome, vphase takes about 2 hours to install and voltishome is around an hour!!!

Let me know how your getting on, ive only just started off doing voltage optimisation and would be keen to know how well your doing!!!

Thanks

I would generally stick with the Voltis unless there is a real need for the 240v (8ft fluorescents anyone???) the voltis is a 20 min job with minimal testing required to db, the Vphase is like opening up a can of worms, altering circuits in the DB would mean needing to test all outgoing circuits and then what do you do if there is a fault on them???? big opportunities for late night phone calls with customers blaming you for causing their appliances to trip rcds etc etc, just my 2p. BTW a 4 slice toaster doesn't like having too low voltage..........