Wago Junction boxes not meeting the requirements of BS7671

[chiplard]

Just had the latest forum offer regarding the LINE Junction Box.

Why is it stating that it is the only compliant JB?

I use Wago JB and am surprised that they don't meet requirements!!

 

[DaveyD]

Im guessing here but is it that they can be opened without a tool?

 

[CrazyScozzese]

Line use a heavy cable tie to comply, am surprised that you can't tightly wrap one or two around a Wago (who don't make their own boxes).

I heard that the Wago cable retainer is not up to the latest spec with regard to vibration either and is currently being revised. But the spec allows for clipping the cable direct for support too, so should be an acceptable work around.

But finally, it needs a MF logo on it, which it doesn't have so game over.

An MF indeed.

Crazy.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

All JBs are compliant with BS7671, if they meet the requirements of BS EN 60670, which is a generic standard for boxes and enclosures.
To be used as a Mainteance Free connection, the Wagos have to be inside an enclosure that meets the requirements of BS 5733, and is marked with MF.
There's no indication that the Line JB is marked with MF.
The BS numbers quoted in the literature, are in fact BS EN numbers.
BS EN 60998 is a generic standard for connecting devices used in domestic installations.
Such devices include screw terminal blocks, Henly blocks and wagos.
The suffix 2-1 refers to screw type, and the suffix 2-2 refers to screwless (Wagos).
BS 5733 refers to enclosures that have cable grips, will retain the connecting device and require the use of a tool in order to access live parts.

 

[Guest123]

Hager's guide tells it like it is.

As Spin has said, enclosures need to have the MF symbol on them to be deemed to comply. The Ashley ones are the only ones I've seen so far with it.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Hager's guide tells it like it is.

As Spin has said, enclosures need to have the MF symbol on them to be deemed to comply. The Ashley ones are the only ones I've seen so far with it.

Except some J501's that I still have in stock, soldering iron and a fine tip shall sort that out!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It seems that the in LINE people are induldging in a bit of scaremongering.
The information from Hager, posted by Lenny appears to cover everything in an easy to understand format, without the scaremongering.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

It seems that the in LINE people are induldging in a bit of scaremongering.
The information from Hager, posted by Lenny appears to cover everything in an easy to understand format, without the scaremongering.

And the new Wagobox light junction box has holes for a cable tie to 'lock' the lid, to me thats good enough to use. And I think they will have or do have the MF logo.

 

[pennywise]

The line boxes look so pro...

 

[fazhols]

Some good information here.

To clear up a few issues:

1) only mf boxes need mf logo and to comply with bs 5733. ( so your j501 are ok Mark)
2) bs en 60670 is a manufacturing standard. Bs 7671 is an installation standard. It is therefore possible to comply with one but fail the other. This is where the wagobox comes unstuck. Is the fact that the wagobox lite has a integral locking device an admission by wagobox that the wagobox original fails to meet all requirements of bs7671?
3) wagoboxes do not have mf Mark and they do not meet bs5733
4) the line box does meet bs5733 but line tell me they are waiting for wago to confirm that wago connectors do meet the requirements of bs5733. Once wago confirm line will add mf logo.

 

[fazhols]

It seems that the in LINE people are induldging in a bit of scaremongering.
The information from Hager, posted by Lenny appears to cover everything in an easy to understand format, without the scaremongering.

How are they scaremongering?

 

[DaveyD]

OK, thanks. So at this point Line are not to be used as maintenance free boxes. Back to crimps and heatshrink then ....

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Line cannot add the MF logo based on Wago's compliance, as after all anyone could fit anything inside the line enclosure.

 

[chiplard]

I have had a good scan of the BRB and have discovered a regulation that covers all. Possibly!!!!!!!

120.4 New Materials and Inventions

Where the use of a new material or invention leads to departures from the regulations, the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than obtained by compliance with the regulations. Such use is to be noted on the EIC

 

[DaveyD]

Line cannot add the MF logo based on Wago's compliance, as after all anyone could fit anything inside the line enclosure.

But that will always be the case Mark, I use halicons. You could use chocks (if you have missed the point!!) as they are not fixed.

 

[DaveyD]

I have had a good scan of the BRB and have discovered a regulation that covers all. Possibly!!!!!!!

120.4 New Materials and Inventions

Where the use of a new material or invention leads to departures from the regulations, the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than obtained by compliance with the regulations. Such use is to be noted on the EIC

Hi, yes I already do that for push fit connectors. I think we should.

 

[fazhols]

Line cannot add the MF logo based on Wago's compliance, as after all anyone could fit anything inside the line enclosure.

This is not true.

What you are implying is that any connector that is not integral to the enclosure can never make a mf unit. If wago connectors are no good with line mf then they are no good in ANY enclosure!

Wago manufacture the connectors and are testing the connectors to extra requirements of amendment A for mf ( ie bs5733). Once Wago confirm the connectors comply Line with wago will be fine. If you look at page 131 in amend A you will see that mf clause says: when used in accordance with manufacturers instructions!

Just like wagobox only complie if used with certain of wagos ranges. Not with all.

The mf is just a Mark on the box - it does not add to the performance!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

This is not true.

What you are implying is that any connector that is not integral to the enclosure can never make a mf unit. If wago connectors are no good with line mf then they are no good in ANY enclosure!

Wago manufacture the connectors and are testing the connectors to extra requirements of amendment A for mf ( ie bs5733). Once Wago confirm the connectors comply Line with wago will be fine. If you look at page 131 in amend A you will see that mf clause says: when used in accordance with manufacturers instructions!

Just like wagobox only complie if used with certain of wagos ranges. Not with all.

The mf is just a Mark on the box - it does not add to the performance!

Correct, but I find it odd that Line are waiting for Wago before Line put MF on their enclosure, when they show an image of the old style screw terminals with cables terminated on their website!

To me that is showing the enclosure is for all sorts in their opinion.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

How are they scaremongering?

Have a look at the link on their website for BS7671.
"...17.2 It is a criminal offence ... a non compliant product: ... liable to imprisonment, a fine or ..."

 

[fazhols]

Have a look at the link on their website for BS7671.
"...17.2 It is a criminal offence ... a non compliant product: ... liable to imprisonment, a fine or ..."

But it's true! I think they are brave enough to be honest and not fudge the issues.

 

[fazhols]

Correct, but I find it odd that Line are waiting for Wago before Line put MF on their enclosure, when they show an image of the old style screw terminals with cables terminated on their website!

To me that is showing the enclosure is for all sorts in their opinion.

Yes they say "can be used with any bs60998/9 connector"

In my book that is an advantage.

It's not the enclosure alone that can comply as mf. It's the enclosure together with the connectors used. Is performance of the connectors not the responsibility of the connector manufacturer?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

But it's true! I think they are brave enough to be honest and not fudge the issues.

It what way is it a criminal offence?

 

[AIM]

BS7671 is a non-statutory document. Prosecution can take place via other publications after non-compliance with BS7671.

 

[fazhols]

It what way is it a criminal offence?

Two reasons.

1) if you have used a non compliant product and don't disclose on your certificate or if it is found to be less safe than the standard allows then it's negligence.
2) the electrical Equipment act, low voltage directive and electrical safety at work act all state that it is a criminal offence to supply a product that does not meet the minimum standards specified. So when the electrician supplies labour and materials the he needs to be pretty sure that all equipment meets standards!

 

[DaveyD]

So what we are saying is that line complies as a jb where accessable - ie spot lights (for which I think are perfect) but NOT inaccessable places ... yet. Is that how we see it?