Wago Junction boxes not meeting the requirements of BS7671

[DaveyD]

I have had a good scan of the BRB and have discovered a regulation that covers all. Possibly!!!!!!!

120.4 New Materials and Inventions

Where the use of a new material or invention leads to departures from the regulations, the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than obtained by compliance with the regulations. Such use is to be noted on the EIC

Hi, yes I already do that for push fit connectors. I think we should.

 

[fazhols]

Line cannot add the MF logo based on Wago's compliance, as after all anyone could fit anything inside the line enclosure.

This is not true.

What you are implying is that any connector that is not integral to the enclosure can never make a mf unit. If wago connectors are no good with line mf then they are no good in ANY enclosure!

Wago manufacture the connectors and are testing the connectors to extra requirements of amendment A for mf ( ie bs5733). Once Wago confirm the connectors comply Line with wago will be fine. If you look at page 131 in amend A you will see that mf clause says: when used in accordance with manufacturers instructions!

Just like wagobox only complie if used with certain of wagos ranges. Not with all.

The mf is just a Mark on the box - it does not add to the performance!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

This is not true.

What you are implying is that any connector that is not integral to the enclosure can never make a mf unit. If wago connectors are no good with line mf then they are no good in ANY enclosure!

Wago manufacture the connectors and are testing the connectors to extra requirements of amendment A for mf ( ie bs5733). Once Wago confirm the connectors comply Line with wago will be fine. If you look at page 131 in amend A you will see that mf clause says: when used in accordance with manufacturers instructions!

Just like wagobox only complie if used with certain of wagos ranges. Not with all.

The mf is just a Mark on the box - it does not add to the performance!

Correct, but I find it odd that Line are waiting for Wago before Line put MF on their enclosure, when they show an image of the old style screw terminals with cables terminated on their website!

To me that is showing the enclosure is for all sorts in their opinion.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

How are they scaremongering?

Have a look at the link on their website for BS7671.
"...17.2 It is a criminal offence ... a non compliant product: ... liable to imprisonment, a fine or ..."

 

[fazhols]

Have a look at the link on their website for BS7671.
"...17.2 It is a criminal offence ... a non compliant product: ... liable to imprisonment, a fine or ..."

But it's true! I think they are brave enough to be honest and not fudge the issues.

 

[fazhols]

Correct, but I find it odd that Line are waiting for Wago before Line put MF on their enclosure, when they show an image of the old style screw terminals with cables terminated on their website!

To me that is showing the enclosure is for all sorts in their opinion.

Yes they say "can be used with any bs60998/9 connector"

In my book that is an advantage.

It's not the enclosure alone that can comply as mf. It's the enclosure together with the connectors used. Is performance of the connectors not the responsibility of the connector manufacturer?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

But it's true! I think they are brave enough to be honest and not fudge the issues.

It what way is it a criminal offence?

 

[AIM]

BS7671 is a non-statutory document. Prosecution can take place via other publications after non-compliance with BS7671.

 

[fazhols]

It what way is it a criminal offence?

Two reasons.

1) if you have used a non compliant product and don't disclose on your certificate or if it is found to be less safe than the standard allows then it's negligence.
2) the electrical Equipment act, low voltage directive and electrical safety at work act all state that it is a criminal offence to supply a product that does not meet the minimum standards specified. So when the electrician supplies labour and materials the he needs to be pretty sure that all equipment meets standards!

 

[DaveyD]

So what we are saying is that line complies as a jb where accessable - ie spot lights (for which I think are perfect) but NOT inaccessable places ... yet. Is that how we see it?

 

[fazhols]

Two reasons.

1) if you have used a non compliant product and don't disclose on your certificate or if it is found to be less safe than the standard allows then it's negligence.
2) the electrical Equipment act, low voltage directive and electrical safety at work act all state that it is a criminal offence to supply a product that does not meet the minimum standards specified. So when the electrician supplies labour and materials the he needs to be pretty sure that all equipment meets standards!

I have just been told that the NICEIC are giving out a guide to course students that confirms this issue.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I think I will stick to the J501's, at least I can happily screw those buggers to the joist!

 

[fazhols]

So what we are saying is that line complies as a jb where accessable - ie spot lights (for which I think are perfect) but NOT inaccessable places ... yet. Is that how we see it?

I will email line and ask. Watch this space tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In what way does does a JB that complies with BS EN 60998 become a non compliant product?
The low voltage directive applies to the manufacture of goods for sale in the European Community, and it is encumbant upon the munufacturer or importer to ensure standards have been complied with.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I will email line and ask. Watch this space tomorrow.

Better still, get them to comment on this thread. Job done.